I have a Mitchell 300 half bail. It was given to my as a child and was a hand me down from my uncle. The only number that I can see is 2711 stamped on the body. No stamping on the seat. It just says Mitchell on the body. No 300. I have looked at the dating reel section and I see nothing like what I am seeing. Any suggestions?
Mark
When was my reel made?
-
Markmiller
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:52 pm
Re: When was my reel made?
Upload a picture or two of the reel. The good folks on this board will help you.
Re: When was my reel made?
The majority of half bails do have a serial number on the body, and just a few on the foot. But that is only because they were the later reels made and they were in full-on mass production.
Earlier reels did not have serial numbers and are generally identified by whether or not they have 'Made in France' on the right hand side of the body or which kind of anti-reverse switching system the have on the left side.
It's common practice to call them first, second or third versions. Only the later of the third versions had serial numbers with a letter prefix, A,B or C, and the very last had a six number serial number and no letter prefix, probably all sold to the UK in 1953 and '54.
I hope that is of some help.
Earlier reels did not have serial numbers and are generally identified by whether or not they have 'Made in France' on the right hand side of the body or which kind of anti-reverse switching system the have on the left side.
It's common practice to call them first, second or third versions. Only the later of the third versions had serial numbers with a letter prefix, A,B or C, and the very last had a six number serial number and no letter prefix, probably all sold to the UK in 1953 and '54.
I hope that is of some help.
}<)))'> Bailarm
-
Markmiller
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:52 pm
Re: When was my reel made?
Here are two photos of my reel
- Attachments
-
- IMG_2685.jpeg (56.25 KiB) Viewed 11206 times
-
- IMG_2686.jpeg (48.07 KiB) Viewed 11206 times
Re: When was my reel made?
This is likely a 1949-1952, 3rd version Mitchell. Unfortunately, the serial number wasn't stamped evenly. There might be a hint of a digit before the 2711. Without a good stamp imprint of the other 2 digits it's hard to pinpoint the correct year.
Re: When was my reel made?
This is what many call the third version of the reel and since it has a serial number on the body ( not the foot )it'll be a late one, made after A70000. So it probably was made between 1951 and early 1954 and would have had a B or C prefix. It's not one of the last with a 6 number serial, as they were made with a slightly smaller stamp.
The quality of the gears inside were very good indeed at this time.
In George Saul's new book, on Page 31, there is an image of the full and half bail production figures for 1954, offered by Mitchell Mate, Christian L'Hermitte. It help enormously in dating things; it shows the last half bail reels were made in May of that year. We know these had a six digit serial number and there aren't many of them and that all were found in the UK.
It follows, with no half bail reels made in April, that the month they switched over from 5 digits with a prefix to 6 digits was about March 1954, something we just didn't know until this book was published. So that is the very latest your reel could have been made.
The quality of the gears inside were very good indeed at this time.
In George Saul's new book, on Page 31, there is an image of the full and half bail production figures for 1954, offered by Mitchell Mate, Christian L'Hermitte. It help enormously in dating things; it shows the last half bail reels were made in May of that year. We know these had a six digit serial number and there aren't many of them and that all were found in the UK.
It follows, with no half bail reels made in April, that the month they switched over from 5 digits with a prefix to 6 digits was about March 1954, something we just didn't know until this book was published. So that is the very latest your reel could have been made.
- Screenshot 1954 dating.png (434.21 KiB) Viewed 11194 times
}<)))'> Bailarm
-
Markmiller
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:52 pm
-
GreatLaker
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:05 am
Re: When was my reel made?
Mark, Welcome to the Mitchell Reel Museum (MRM) 
Thank you for your post and nice photographs of your reel.
Personally, I can't date a Mitchell 300 reel by looking at simply the frame, cover plate and handle. I would need to see good photos of the assembled reel, front and back. In the case of a 1/2 bail good photos of the insides would be needed as well. Even with the photos I could give only an estimate range of approximately around when your 1/2 bail was made. I have no way of proving my estimate is 100% accurate. There are many theories on dating and not all of them agree so fair warning.
I will not argue with any one else's dating because there are just too many variables. I feel a variety of opinions is most helpful to the forum and informational to all.
Kind Regards,
Bill
Thank you for your post and nice photographs of your reel.
Personally, I can't date a Mitchell 300 reel by looking at simply the frame, cover plate and handle. I would need to see good photos of the assembled reel, front and back. In the case of a 1/2 bail good photos of the insides would be needed as well. Even with the photos I could give only an estimate range of approximately around when your 1/2 bail was made. I have no way of proving my estimate is 100% accurate. There are many theories on dating and not all of them agree so fair warning.
I will not argue with any one else's dating because there are just too many variables. I feel a variety of opinions is most helpful to the forum and informational to all.
Kind Regards,
Bill
Re: When was my reel made?
As Bill rightly points out there are different views on dating and there has been a good deal of confusion and controversy. I very much appreciate and agree with the tone of Bill's comments : there is no reason for people to fall out over this.
George Saul and I spent a good deal of time researching and discussing this subject and we have both published dating guides. Our guides are very similar. If I could just comment on what has been written here.
It is my opinion that the claw bail with a boomerang check was manufactured from 1949 - 1954. For about the last 12 months claw and hoop bails were manufactured simultaneously as patent restrictions prevented the sale of the hoop in the UK until late 1954. It is also of opinion that serial numbers were first used at the beginning of 1952. The monthly production figures for 1954 have been known about for some time.
If, as has been suggested, the placing of the incomplete serial number suggests a number post A70000, then I think that Mark's reel could have been made no earlier than around September to October 1952. To answer Mark's original question, the latest thinking would date his reel to between late 1952 and early 1954. It is not possible to be more accurate without knowing the full serial number. Others will think differently.
George Saul kindly sent me a copy of his excellent book which I can thoroughly recommend.
Rolands.
George Saul and I spent a good deal of time researching and discussing this subject and we have both published dating guides. Our guides are very similar. If I could just comment on what has been written here.
It is my opinion that the claw bail with a boomerang check was manufactured from 1949 - 1954. For about the last 12 months claw and hoop bails were manufactured simultaneously as patent restrictions prevented the sale of the hoop in the UK until late 1954. It is also of opinion that serial numbers were first used at the beginning of 1952. The monthly production figures for 1954 have been known about for some time.
If, as has been suggested, the placing of the incomplete serial number suggests a number post A70000, then I think that Mark's reel could have been made no earlier than around September to October 1952. To answer Mark's original question, the latest thinking would date his reel to between late 1952 and early 1954. It is not possible to be more accurate without knowing the full serial number. Others will think differently.
George Saul kindly sent me a copy of his excellent book which I can thoroughly recommend.
Rolands.
Re: When was my reel made?
I could not present any debating evidence against Altex, Bailarm and GreatLaker statements. I was only using the forum's "Dating Reels" for my comment.
These gentlemen and others like George Saul on the board have studied this topic, so I would trust their judgement over anything I presented.
These gentlemen and others like George Saul on the board have studied this topic, so I would trust their judgement over anything I presented.
Re: When was my reel made?
Dear John,
Dating reels has been a thorny subject for a long time and perhaps adds a little spice to the hobby. Personally I dislike the unpleasantness that there has been in the past.
Having researched the subject thoroughly, I have my own views and others are free to believe what they wish. I suppose a lot depends on whether you are primarily interested in the reels as an angler or a collector. As a collector I put a lot of time, effort and money into the hobby, and I can only do this based on accurate information.
I notice a typo in my earlier post : in my opinion the MK3 reel was made from 1950 - 54, not 1949 -54.
Warm regards,
Rolands.
Dating reels has been a thorny subject for a long time and perhaps adds a little spice to the hobby. Personally I dislike the unpleasantness that there has been in the past.
Having researched the subject thoroughly, I have my own views and others are free to believe what they wish. I suppose a lot depends on whether you are primarily interested in the reels as an angler or a collector. As a collector I put a lot of time, effort and money into the hobby, and I can only do this based on accurate information.
I notice a typo in my earlier post : in my opinion the MK3 reel was made from 1950 - 54, not 1949 -54.
Warm regards,
Rolands.
Re: When was my reel made?
Altex,
I understand your position and just wanted it to be known, I haven't studied the reels like you and others have. Yourself and others know way more than I.
I have a few collector books and as you state they don't all agree on the dates. With the serial number missing digits, your book indicates the reel being manufactured sometime between 1950-1954. The MRM site has it differently.
As a hobbyist, I'd be happy just to know the date range is in the early 1950s.
-John
I understand your position and just wanted it to be known, I haven't studied the reels like you and others have. Yourself and others know way more than I.
I have a few collector books and as you state they don't all agree on the dates. With the serial number missing digits, your book indicates the reel being manufactured sometime between 1950-1954. The MRM site has it differently.
As a hobbyist, I'd be happy just to know the date range is in the early 1950s.
-John
Re: When was my reel made?
I inherited a Mitchell which I think is 1958 or 1959 due to the serial number of 2265174. Curiosity on my part as to which year it is.
Thx
Thx