Corrosion repair or remediation

[Baron2]

Hello again folks,
Sometime back in previous threads someone mentioned treating a reel for corrosion. It was in reference to a reel I had asked for help on and it was suggested that perhaps their were better reels out there for me to learn on. That is unless I wanted to fully restore it which would require allot of corrosion work. Is there a way to arrest, remove and permanently protect against pitting and other types of corrosion?
Do you folks re-sleeve the shafts and similar stuff? Or at this point do you just put new parts into the reels.
On other sites I've also read that you should arrest and treat corrosion. Well I'm all for learning but first I have to get my self talking correctly and I thought maybe this would be a great place to start. I have a good bunch of 300's, a 400 and a 410 to clean and other than the mechanics, which I'm fine with, I know very little of the nuances of making the reels operate like new. I fish, I don't collect so-to-speak. Good reels, ones that fish well and are old, that's what I'm after.
Don Tyson

[Bonaventure]

Corrosion deposits can be mechanically or chemically removed. The metal is then treated with a conversion coating such as Alodine, which is good for internal surfaces of an aluminum bodied reel which are further protected by a coating of grease.

The corrosion on aluminum alloy parts present themselves as black or dark grey deposits, sometimes with localised pitting. If this is not present, my advice is to spread a thin coating of grease on inside surfaces and to repaint exterior ones. If the reel is only used in fresh water, there is a good chance that serious corrosion will not be present. The Conversion Coating mentioned earlier in this post is not safely feasible at a consumer level. It entails the use of acid and the corrosion treatment is a strong oxidizer which can cause spontaneous combustion if it comes in contact with a hydro-carbon like mineral spirits, kerosene etc. Not worth the risk.

The maintenance unit at my work does this type of thing all the time. Tanks of paint stripper, acids, metal treatments. One of my fishing buddies works there and has stripped and treated reel parts for me. I have done the painting part on 9 reels. My opinions are based on 19 years of military experience as an Aircraft Refinisher.

For the most part, our reels have been knocked about in boats and on banks for a quarter century or more with damage to finish being a part of life. Salt water changes things, but for the most part, the factory metal finishing techniques are adequate when coupled with proper reel maintenance. Repaint if you feel up to the task. If there are no corrosion deposits, soldier on, the reel will.

G.Glen Simpson
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia

[Baron2]

Wow Glen that is a good Kick-Off to my quest for understanding. There has been a Temco Swift sitting at a local airport for 40 years that needs your help. I was into airport hopping for a while when younger and knew where many of the old project planes died. What an era!
In and out of old Taylorcraft, Cheif's and 120's abandoned at old airports were part of me developing an appreciation for old outdoor equipment.
Glen, in the photos below there is a light colored crustiness left on the surface. Is this corrosion? I took this reel apart to find it full of emulsified grease/water/oil crap swishing around in it. I assume it was minerals that fell out of solution and attached to the surfaces. I didn't perceive it to be corrosion. In your opinion do you think it may be? It is not black or gray.
I could take a Dremel and polish out the crust and shine it up but I cannot treat, as u say, due to the danger potential. Is the corrosion service something I can send out for? Is it affordable?
I believe another post discusses stripping the paint off. I have a fine sandblaster as well. Before any corrosion treatment or anti corrosion coating I suspect that any paint removal and surface buffing and preparation for paint should and be completed?

[Bonaventure]

It is oxidisation, which can probably be removed with a green scotchbrite pad. It probably has not affected the structural integrity of the part. Once it has been polished out, a bit of grease will protect it. The inside of a reel will hold the grease on the surface, since it is more or less sealed from the elements. The reel needs to be checked from time to time, that it has grease on the gears, areas like this need a light film, which should stay in place and protect for years.

Tear a small piece of the scotchbrite off and force it into the little nooks with the fingertips. A small circular movement should do it.

You could also sandblst it away, carefully. If you can find walnut shell media, that would be kinder to the surface. There is also plastic media. I have no idea if it is readily available. You could also try the Dremel with a wire brush attachment. Don uses a bench mounted grinder with a wire wheel to strip his Mitchells for repaint. Eye protection!!!

Best wishes

Glen

[Baron2]

Does this article explain properly? Is the author on the right track?

https://brightworkpolish.com/what-is-th ... corrosion/

[Bonaventure]

Hello again,

Yes, it gives a very good explanation. The polishes that are advertised may well rid the reel of oxidation, I am not familiar with them. It may be that the focus of the article is the cosmetic appearance of bare aluminum alloy aircraft parts or surfaces. I don’t think this oxidation is serious. You should try the least aggressive means first, then move to harder ways. You may get it clear with detergent like Dawn. The scotchbrite is the place to start.

Best wishes

Glen

[Baron2]

Sage advice and I thank you.

When you said that, once clean, it could be protected with a coat of grease were you talking about rubbing on thin like wax on a car or thicker?
Thanks

[Bonaventure]

Use a small paint brush, cotton swab and spread a very thin coat over the bare metal. There has been a lot posted about what type of grease to use. I do not recommend lithium based grease, use a clear type grease, synthetic based etc. If a grease is made for reels you can go with that.

Once you have the surfaces covered, go right to reassembly and gear lubrication.

The inside of reels are reasonably weather tight, but oxidisation like your reel has will turn to corrosion if an acidic or salt water enters this closed environment. Grease is a simple protection for surfaces that stay unseen for long periods of time between maintenance schedules.

Best wishes

Glen

[don309]

I have taken some nasty reels in, and refurbished them. I have never however painted the inside of the housing. I have used paint thinner & a GOOD dremel copper brush to them. I then coat them with a light coat Corrosion block grease (freshwater & saltwater).

[Baron2]

Don, I got 4 more locally today. I'll go through them one at a time. All of these spin okay and obviously need cleaning One sounds like the gears are rough.

Glen if the oxidation viewed on the attached photos isn't bad, and I'm only going to fish it is there any advantage to me cleaning it further? Or should I just coat it and re-assemble? I'll look for a really nice one to more carefully and professionally redo.

[Bonaventure]

It would probably do little harm either way. The oxidization doesn't look to be affecting the structure of the part. personally, i would clean it off. a few minutes with a scotchbrite pad will likely do it. if the reel is going to be disassembled and lubricated each year you can monitor the oxidization to ensure it doesn't expand.

even if there is pitting present on a reel, the corrosin deposits can be removed and the damage filled with an epoxy-aluminum filler such as J.B, WELD, DEVCON Aluminum putty, or 3m Structural adhesive.

Best wishes

Glen

[Baron2]

I love JB Weld. So if I were to find corrosionI should drill or grind it out and fill with JB weld?

[Bonaventure]

Yes, but I am sure you will not find any significant pitting under the oxidization on this reel. the metal will have a tarnish.

Aluminum alloys corrode against themselves. Pure aluminum is passive and will not corrode, but to harden it, the aluminum is alloyed with other metals, mainly copper. Oxidization and corrosion occurs along the grain boundaries of the metal and is caused by electro-chemical action between the metals in the alloy itself. a corrosive environment is needed for this to take place.

When I worked on Military aircraft, there was much ado about dealing with corrosion on the skin of the aircraft, on fasteners etc. There was an instance on an Aurora (our version of the P-3 Orion). The inside of the aircraft was carpeted, where people entered the aircraft in winter, there would be meltwater from their boots accumulating just inside the door. this included roadsalt on the footwear. A floor stringer failed due to corrosion. The investigation revealed that the structure beneath the floors were not inspected during periodic maintenance and years of salt laden water took their toll.

Should we worry if the side plate screws are rusty, or if corrosion is affecting the interior of the reel? Salt water fishing, of course, submits the reel to harsher environments than fresh water.

Best wishes

Glen

[Baron2]

Okay then. A little scotch bright and I’m good to go. I don’t use these in salt.
There are allot of orions here at Willow Grove NAS in PA. Relics from Cold War and other uses. Cool planes.

[Baron2]

Next, on my table is a 410. Got it apart and it is dry on the crank bearing. All greas is yellow and hardened up. Are new bearings available for these 410s?

[Baron2]

Photos 410 and more

[Bonaventure]

Now that’s the reel to be concerned about.

Where did you get all these 300s?

Glen

[Baron2]

I'm new at collecting and I only like old reels. I don't so much collect as that I reinforce my fishing lineup with identical backups. Also, Like Don309, I give them to others. My plan is to collect 408's, don't have one yet but they're on the way, someday. I also collect a limited number of Johnson, Abu and Zebco reels. There are 4 Dam Quick Finessa on the shelf next to my only Penn...a 710z.

I live in an area that was very very well represented with the Michelle 300s, in fact they killed spincast brands in the 60's and 70's. Since there are oodles of 300's in this area they come up at local Fleas for reasonable prices. So I buy every one I see at usually less than $10. We'll see where this takes me but the Idea is to trade them or sell them in order to afford my preferred reels. I had a great 408 in my hand the other day. He was at $45 and I wanted it for 30. He knew what he had and held his ground. But a good deal will show up.
It will not be a waste if I patiently learn to keep these reels in working order.

[Baron2]

I hope you Gentlemen would continue on as I go through this cleaning process. In the photo's you can see shiny areas and gray areas. Are the gray areas the result of oxidation? Am I ready for grease coating or shall I continue buffing. There doesn't seem to be any scale left on the surface and the shininess is the result of buffing with Dremel not polish. I found out that a common Q-Tip snipped off is the same size accepted by the chuck on the Dremel

IMG_1876.jpeg (195.37 KiB) Viewed 11665 times

IMG_1875.jpeg (196.58 KiB) Viewed 11665 times

IMG_1876.jpeg (195.37 KiB) Viewed 11665 times

and when coated with red rouge the side-cover screw pylon radii clean up nicely (If u can think of a better way to describe the area, please....).

[Baron2]

The bearings seem to be okay. But they are soaking in marvel mystery oil for the afternoon.

[Bonaventure]

Hi again,

That is the tarnish that I wrote about a few posts back. Now is the time to apply a thin coat of grease. The grease will isolate the metal from the air, which can cause oxidation to restart. Then put the reel back together. You can also coat all of the internal bits and apply a bit more grease between the moving gears etc.

How hard was it to get the reel parts to this point?

Best wishes

Glen

[Baron2]

Glen it was not hard at all. I needed to get my ducks in a rows then it went 1 2 3. I said at the beginning that I needed to learn what it is that I'm looking at. I knew about the mechanics but did not understand the condition and what the condition needs to be. You have been a great help in "getting my look'ums to focus".
I see now that to go further would needlessly remove allot of material and for what. I'm gonna fish it not show it off.
The roller bearings in the crank were bad and I ordered an Ebay set. The paint is okay, sort of, not sure if I'll paint it. IMHO original paint is the most durable though I've plenty of reels that will be painted because the look terrible...this one is on the edge.
I'll come back to this post when the bearing arives in a few days.
Thanks Everyone for getting me at least this far.

[Bonaventure]

I was happy to be of help in this.

Glen

[Baron2]

Well after I lightly greased it and replaced the roller bearing in the crank I now have a very nice 410.
Its my first 410.
I like it.
It still spins backwards thought
I wiped them down with T9 Boeshield.
Might paint it someday.
Now I have a 400 to dig into.....