HELP WITH A MITCHELL 300

[Bonaventure]

Hello Mitchell Mates,

I have a Mitchell 300 that is missing the shim that sits under the Rotating Head Pinion Gear.

The reel is really tight. I am in the process of making a Jig to hold shim stock in a lathe in order to turn out shims. What thickness would be suitable?

I have access to brass shim stock.

If I removed the shim beneath the other Pinion Gear, will that loosen up the reel? Have I overtightened the baffle plate nut? Anything else we can come up with?

Thanks Glen

[Wallace Carney]

Hi Glen,

I think your problem is there should be a washer directly under the baffle plate. Is that missing?

I don't know what this means but the shims came in 3 thicknesses:

• 0,10

• 0,15

• 0,20

I hope this helps. Let me know about the washer. I also have shims if you need some.

Regards, Wallace

[GreatLaker]

Here is an old post from treidm that has the measurements.

treidm
Post subject: SHIM MEASUREMENTS
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:44 am • #

SHIM MEASUREMENTS
DIAL CALIPER:
ETALON MODEL 125 (75-115811) SERIAL NUMBER: 4T 02294 01
CALIBRATED IN SUMMER 2011 (WITH DOCUMENTATION)
Graduation (Decimal Inch): 0.0010
Sub Graduation Dots (Decimal Inch): 0.0005

SUPPLY (ORDERED FROM THE REEL DOCTOR, EDMONTON, AB)
4 EACH OF:
81012: Shim (Baffle Plate to Head)
81047: Shim (Pinion Gear)
81035: Shim (Drive Gear)
81024: Shim (Head to Housing)

METHOD:
Measured each shim 8 times at pie intervals for all measurements, twice
ID & OD’s were all extremely close to same (within 0.0005, average)
Differences for Thicknesses are shown

RESULTS:

81012: Shim (Baffle Plate to Head) 300-301, 300A-301A
ID = 0.315 (8mm)
OD = 0.551 (14mm)
Thick = 0.004, 0.004 (0.1mm), 0.006 (0.15mm), 0.008 (0.2mm)

81047: Shim (Pinion Gear) 300-301, 300A-301A
ID = 0.1675 (4.25mm)
OD = 0.259 (6.579mm)
Thick = 0.005 (0.127mm)

81035: Shim (Drive Gear) 300-301
ID = 0.259 (6.579mm)
OD = 0.394 (10mm)
Thick = 0.004, 0.004 (0.1mm), 0.008, 0.008 (0.2mm)

81024: Shim (Head to Housing) 300-301
ID = 0.319 (8.103mm)
OD = 0.3925 (9.97mm)
Thick = 0.004 (0.1mm), 0.005, 0.005, 0.005 (0.127mm)

Reid
Hope this helps,
Kind Regards,
Bill

[Bonaventure]

My thoughts are, that without the shim, the gears are meshed tighter, making it difficult to turn the reel over.

I believe the steel washer and the 2 brass ones are there under the baffle, but I will look into this.

It isn't a high priority, I have four 300's that I am not using. I am making a jig to turn shims on a lathe using brass shim stock.if the first one works, I am going to make jigs for all 3 shim sizes.

Hope everyone is doing Okay.

Best wishes and thanks for your help

Glen

[Bonaventure]

Hello Everyone,

Wallace, you were right, i was missing the steel washer under the baffle. I have another that I will put in at home, my little box of parts was at work.

I also have to put in a Bail Spring.

The rotor shim was missing, I got 1/2 dozen of the 3 thicknesses made and put one in last evening. I used .020. It helped some but the reel is still tight.

Thanks for the Advice.

Glen in Nova Scotia

[Wallace Carney]

Hi Glen

Sounds like your reel needs a full service / cleaning. This will get rid of any gunked up parts that will cause the reel to be sticky or tough to turn.

See; https://mitchellreelmuseum.com/garcia-m ... ce-repair/

Pay interest to the axle and axle shaft which must be cleaned and greased. While you're in there, do a full cleaning / service.

Kind Regards,
Wallace

[Bonaventure]

Thanks Wallace,

It is still stiff, I am wondering if the main shaft is bent. I cleaned the reel with Brake wash and greased it. All the internal parts are there, except the bail spring. I need to get some of these. I am going to take the reel apart, maybe in a week and check the shaft.

I am not sure of what the best procedure is to shim. I removed the.020 shim and replaced it with a.015. I can try a.010 shim, but I'm not sure the problem is in the shim.

Thanks again for the help

Glen in Nova Scotia

[Ed Horan]

I'm no expert by any means, but I can't help but wonder if there are too many shims stacked behind the pinion? Someone may have taken it apart in the past and reassembled the pinion shim stack without regard to the shim placement. Stiff performance could be that the pinion is meshing with the drive gear with no backlash or even a preload on the gears. As I understood it, if there are 2 shims behind the pinion, removing 1 shim from behind the pinion and placing it under the steel washer you just put in will move the pinion back away from the drive gear. By placing the removed shim under the steel washer , the head stays tight on the pinion without the reel head becoming wobbly and the pinion will mesh more freely with the drive gear. What I'm really trying to say is, when you remove a shim from one end of the pinion, it must go to the other end. A bent axle shaft can be figured out with a straight edge, so that's a fairly easy check. If moving the shims around doesn't solve your problem, maybe reopen the gear case and loosen the 2 screws that hold the plate that keeps the axle in place. re-install the cover and see if the stiffness is gone. If it is, then shim the plate. I had to do this to one of my 300's that was giving me fits and the shims solved the issue.

I'm sure the other Mates will advise if I've missed something. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Ed Horan

[Wallace Carney]

Hi Glen, if the reel was mine, I'd remove all shims including/mainly between the head and housing and start all over. If it is still stiff something's wrong with the gear drive chain of gears/axle/etc... This along with what Ed told you should get it narrowed down to the problem. Keep us informed, Wallace

[Bailarm]

Just a thought....it's very rare for a reel to have only one 'under rotor' shim. Usually several shims are needed to get the correct clearance between pinion gear and rotor gear. I've serviced about 300 reels now and I don't recall one having a single shim, though I may have simply forgotten if one did.......


I always assemble the reels 'dry' initially so that I can get a real feel of what is tight and what is loose. And also what any changes have made.


When I'm doing shimming I leave out the oscillating slide, the gear that drives it and the axle. This way I can feel nothing but the gears as I turn the reel over.


Don't go too far with the shimming. I once did a reel 'perfectly', hand-polishing shims until there was no perceptible play anywhere. When I lightly oiled the reel it jammed almost solid

[Bonaventure]

Thanks Bailarm,

Could you give me a starting place, say 2 shims totalling.030, or.035 etc. I have np idea where to begin on this.

Glen

[Bailarm]

I'm afraid there isn't a starting place really. The manufacturing tolerances of the reel body and rotor mean that 'some' will be required, but one can never be sure which ones will be needed.

I tend to shim the little pinion gear first to get a quiet and smooth reel just facing upwards with no axle, baffle, spool etc in place. The I try the under rotor shims, once again facing upwards.

Once I have something close to what is needed I add the over rotor shims and the spacer washer...a flick of a fingertip gives you an idea if more or less over rotor shims are needed. Then I do a full assembly with the baffle etc and try the reel facing up and down to listen to the gears.

I might need to alter things, often I do. It helps to have the left over shims from previous services here......

[Bonaventure]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions,

There is only one shim under the pinion gear. I believe the insides are clean enough, the paint was stripped in a tank, then dipped in caustic cleaner, rinsed and treated with the chroma coat.

I will probably get back to it in the near future.

Thanks again
Glen

[Schrack]

Normally if their is not back and forth movement in the head with the reel is properly shimmed.
If it has movement I start with the .010 shim and would increase if necessary.
Baffle plate has the washer and shims are added under washer.
If it gets worse remove the shims you installed.
I had several with lateral (back and forth movement) which the shim behind plate cured.
Most of the ones I have at least 2 shims under baffle plate washer.
Always pay close attention when you take reels apart as to what is where.
Some times it is the shaft, the machining was not top quality on the shafts and track.

[Bonaventure]

The original problem is that there was no shim under the rotating head gear. I did take it apart carefully, and cleaned, lubricated at the outset. The reel is really tight. I have not looked at it since I started, since I am still short the bail spring, but I have had some brass shims cut for both this location and the small ones under the sideplate gear. I will probably get to it through the winter, once I get off my butt and decide what I want to order with the spring, to justify shipping charges. Shipping is 4 to 5 times the cost of the bail spring. This is one of three 300 models that I have stored away.

I think I will also open up the bail on my 308 to check what spring it has and get a spare for it and my 304. If I can get them. I was thinking of trying for a 302 from the guy in Ontario that I bought from previously. I need to check if he has these other parts. He strips down reels for rebuilding and parts.



All the best

Glen

[Schrack]

t
This is ironic, purchased a parts reel, with bail problems, took apart it had 2 shims under face plate.
Cleaned lubed fixed bail, installed spring put back together, bail would not trip.
Drank a beer and thought, so took out 1 shim, same problem, took other shim out and it worked perfect, with a little play in head.
When I took reel apart none of screws were tight just in.
Guess person that took it apart had no idea of what they were doing.
Tonight after shift might add a shim under rotating head to eliminate slight head play.
This is what is fun unlike Aircraft problems it is not that expensive to fix.
kinda funny it turned up with this post.