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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:35 pm • #  
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Location: Portland, OR
Mates, after receiving my latest early 302 (Salt Water), I noticed the variations in the crank handles and thought I'd share. Would like to know any thoughts or similar findings.

All the photos are left to right A01709 (half bail), A18008, A19913, B65611.

Counterweight:
A01709 - No slot end, smooth (no grip knurling), rounded end
A18008 - Slotted end, smooth, slightly chamfered end
A19913 - Slotted end, smooth, rounded end
B65611 - Slotted end, grip, rounded end

Shoulder:
A01709 - No shoulder
A18008 - Small shoulder (about 2mm)
A19913 - Small shoulder (about 2mm)
B65611 - Large shoulder (about 4mm)

Knob Screw:
A01709 - Convex head
A18008 - Flat head
A19913 - Flat head
B65611 - Flat head

Knob Screw base:
A01709 - Rounded (like early 300s and 308s)
A18008 - Flat (like later 300s and 308s)
A19913 - Flat (like later 300s and 308s)
B65611 - Flat (like later 300s and 308s)

The first handle (A01709) is extremely rare with no slot, rounded knob screw base and convex knob screw head. I'm wondering if any of the mates have this handle or if it only came on half-bails?

The second handle (A18008) is the only one I've seen like it with the chamfered counterweight (vs rounded off). Do any mates have one like this?

The fourth handle (B65611) is the only handle that does not hit the bail on some revolutions (since it has the larger shoulder), other than the half bail...an improvement made somewhere before B65611. Not sure when.

There is a fifth version of handle that came out later with large grip and a larger shoulder...

I thought it would be a good idea to see if we can establish serial numbered versions for these handles, so we know when one did not come new with a reel, since they are easily switched. I've seen many cases of this.

Any comments are appreciated,
Sandman

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:37 pm • #  
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:17 pm • #  
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Sinandman,
I want to be the first to THANK YOU for this information on the evolution of the 302 handles. I don't think I've seen it covered before. :sFun_bananachaplin:

regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:20 pm • #  
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Sandman,
Nice post, cool to see the different handles lined up together like that-makes it much easier to study. :clap

A few observations and suggestions.

[I recently learned that the part of a handle where the threads attach (On 300 Models) is called the hub so I use that term now. Is that what you call the shoulder? I also learned that the handles with the smaller/short hub were for metal knobbed early handles, used on the half bail models and the longer hub appeared with the full bail models w/plastic twist knobs, to prevent contact between handle/reel.]

Observations:

First Handle-
-Has a unique hub.
-Has a unique peen. (For lack of the proper term I call the place where the handle is flattened over, inside the counter weight (C.W.) a peen mark. Looks like a cross hatched rivet.)
-Unique look to the finish (shiny), perhaps a different alloy or aluminum that has not been anodized which is what the others look like to me.
-Does this one have a spring loaded C.W.? Looks different. What about others which are spring loaded vs screw lock? :sFun_eyescan:

Third Handle-
-Rounding on C.W. looks unique to me.

Fourth Handle-
-Note larger hub-locates the handle further away from the reel to reduce contact between handle/reel.

Suggestions: :sCh_fisherman:
1 Study the peen marks. Would love to see photo of them.
2 Check for magnetic parts. On 300 models I have found magnetic: threads(inserted/screwed into hub), handle position pin (positions handle knob outward/inward), knob screws, and springs inside C.W.
3 Check for inserted threads vs. cut into the hub itself.
4 Show photos of screws outside plastic knob.
5 Show portion of threads in handle shank that are exposed when the C.W. is unscrewed and pulled out as far as it goes.

Thanks for the great photos and info. :sSig_nicethread:
Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 am • #  
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Location: Portland, OR
Thanks Ted. I didn't think I had seen this topic either...In general, these early salt water reels don't get a lot of coverage...I think they are fascinating reels because they were the second reel Mitchell designed and one of only two that started as half-bails.

Bill, thanks for your interest...I wasn't sure if there would be any...and for the great questions...mostly, the photos answer your questions...couple of notes though.

I added a fifth version (NOS from the 70s).

There is no metal anywhere on the handles a strong magnet would attract, not even the knob screws...

Again they are positioned from earliest to latest, left to right.

You'll notice no threads show on the first handle when the CW is fully retracted, though it is not spring loaded, it is a screw type. All are screw type.

Note the fifth version with even a larger shoulder on the "hub"...also, the fifth version's handle spacer washer is almost twice as thick as all the others.

The threads in all the hubs are milled directly from the hub (even the one from the 70s)...steel studs were not inserted on any reels until 1959. The first four reels in these photos range from '53 to '56, or so...the first three are 53'-54'...

The peening inside the CW seems only unique (larger) to the first handle..

The CW lengths vary, mostly getting shorter left to right.

The middle three knob screws are the same. The first has a longer convex (previously mentioned) head and a longer shaft and threads (thus the knob has quite a bit of play). The newest screw has larger threads (larger around), though the shaft is the same size...

You are correct on the anodized finishes, though each vary slightly...maybe somewhat due to use...

Metal knobs were never used on Salt Water reels, though the hubs did get longer to resolve the problem with contacting the bail, just like the Mitchell (300)...

Finally, the knob on the fifth reel (newest) is taller and so the screw is recessed quite a ways into the handle.

Again, all these characteristics add up to quite a few changes in the evolution...quite a few just in the first 20,000 reels!...

Thanks for your interest Bill. I would love to see other early handles.

Sandman


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:05 am • #  
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:21 pm • #  
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Sandman,
I believe you have just created the best post on 302 handles I have ever seen and would not be surprised to discover it is the best ever done! :sSig_goodjob2:

Hopefully, this data will now be preserved in the MRM for many years to come. :clap

Thanks for posting the new photographs, I think they are terrific and really enjoyed seeing them. :sFun_bananacolors:

Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:20 am • #  
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An interesting, factual and objective topic.

Excellent.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:24 pm • #  
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Thanks guys...there are many other early attribute evolutions on these reels...particularly interesting are the bails, and bail trip levers, as these evolved from half-bails to the final design of full bails...I'll try to put those posts together as time allows.

In general, the Salt Water half bails are exceedingly rare...I've only recorded 15 half bails, from serial #A1120 - A3682, so it's largely accepted these were produced beginning with A1000 and finished around A4000, or so, totalling only 3000 produced...If I've only recorded 15, there are 2985 left to find...wonder how many have survived from 1953?...remember, they were primarily used in Salt...

Sandman


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