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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:32 pm • #  
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This one was a shame. I took a chance because the exterior looked brand new.

Inside was another story. Not sure what would cause this, but the gears have been wore away to mush.


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 Offline Ted Lanham
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:37 pm • #  
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Belvar22,
Are the gear actually gone? Does the reel work at all? The reason I ask is that the picture looks like it just might be a metallic looking grease.
Ted Lanham
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm • #  
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The teeth are pretty much completely gone from the drive gear, and the teeth on the pinion are wore down considerably. The reel doesn't work at all.
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 Offline Ted Lanham
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:12 pm • #  
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I have never heard or seen anything like that before. :sCh_taz:

Ted
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:23 pm • #  
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I wonder if it had something to do with the grease?

I know some transmission oils are not rated for yellow metal. The brass in side looks really yellow, like you would expect something brand new to look. Absolutely no oxidation.
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 Offline Ted Lanham
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:25 pm • #  
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Balvar24,
The reel looks like it has hardly been used, so something has been eating on the brass.
I sent you another PM.

Ted
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 Offline CDSAND7640
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 pm • #  
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That is a shame...I think the grease looks metallic because of all the metal gear shavings in the grease....only way I can think of to shave the gears down is to not have the gears align....or, have one gear turn while the other stationary....never seen one that bad before.....are the A/R gear teeth on the opposite side of the main gear in tact?

Sandman
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:15 pm • #  
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The a/r works, but I've never disassembled it any further to inspect the gears or dog.
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 Offline CDSAND7640
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:19 am • #  
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Since the A/R works, the only way to grind down the gears is to turn the crank handle in retrieve mode and hold the rotating hand so it won’t move...pretty hard to do...understandably, I’ve never tried hard enough to do this...

Just had a thought, if the thrust washer is missing, there would not be as much positive gear connection...the main gear would be a little loose causing slack in the gears...I would take the main gear out and check...you will need to anyway to make the reel useable.

Sandman
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:46 pm • #  
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Both the main gear and pinion are toast. Odd thing is that they appear to be wore fairly even.
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 Offline Bonaventure
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 am • #  
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If the rotor were held and the reel handle turned, the main gear ould wear itself eveniy all the way around. The pinion gear would not, but would only show wear on the contact area of the main gear.
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 Offline Bonaventure
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 am • #  
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If the rotor were held and the reel handle turned, the main gear ould wear itself eveniy all the way around. The pinion gear would not, but would only show wear on the contact area of the main gear.
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:41 pm • #  
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I managed to pick up a $15 408 parts reel to scavenge the gears out of. Turns out, it's an old style 408 with the knurled nut on the pinion gear.

How do I get the pinion gear out of the cup? Is it threaded? Similar process for the new and old styles?

Does anyone predict issues with sticking the older style pinion in place of the new style?

If so, I've got a 308 that I could devote these parts too. I kind of like the look of the black reels better anyway.
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 Offline CDSAND7640
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:08 pm • #  
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Balvar, instructions below...new and old style are same procedure...ensure you place any washers back the same as they came out...they are different thickness washers (one above rotor and one below)...don't take the knurled nut off once you get the pinion out of the rotor, or loosen it too much unless you are prepared to chase tiny ball bearings...

Sandman

Easiest procedure for pinion removal:

Remove axle.

Remove hex nut.

Remove pinion set screw, pull rotor off of housing with pinion still attached.

Apply penetrating oil to pinion threads at top and bottom of rotor, let soak overnight.

Re-attached rotor to housing, leave hex nut off.

insert axle, with planamatic parts and oscillation block (this is very important - essentially, put it all back together including the crank handle, except the pinion set screw)

Also very important - TURN A/R LEVER IN OFF POSITION, so it is not engaged or you can ruin the main drive gear A/R teeth...

Use a bit of rag (I’ve successfully used wood and even copper without damaging gear teeth) to jam pinion and main gear.

Rotor should unscrew easily.
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 pm • #  
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Soaking now. I may add some Kroil for good measure.

Thanks.
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:21 pm • #  
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Righty tighty, lefty loosey, correct?

And why am I leaving the set screw out?
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 Offline CDSAND7640
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:24 pm • #  
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Yes, lefty loosey...

The pinion set screw will hold the pinion gear to the rotating head...must take it out...

make sure you take off the washer below the axle hex nut too...probably should include that in the instructions...

It's not absolutely necessary to have the crank handle installed when turning the head off of the pinion, because the effect of having it installed is potentially making he crank handle really tight...I leave it on to help with leverage, but am careful not to crank too much on it...

Sandman
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:35 pm • #  
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Hmm. Must need more soaking.
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 Offline CDSAND7640
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 pm • #  
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The hardest part is finding just the right size and shape of rag/wood/copper that will jam between the main gear and pinion well enough to keep the gears from not moving when you rotate the head off the pinion...once you have it jammed well, hold the body in your left hand and the head in your right, then unscrew the head by turning the top of the head toward you (lefty loosey)...shouldn't be too hard...I use copper to jam the ones that are really stuck...

Sandman
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 Offline Balvar24
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:19 pm • #  
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Yeah, the rag didn't want to work for me. The gears chewed it up.

Also because the gears are beveled, the head tries to climb out of the body without the pin in there.
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 Offline CDSAND7640
 Post subject: Re: 408 - Shame
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:10 am • #  
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Yes, the helical 408 gears tend to do that...if you've not got a good jamb to prevent the gears from moving, then it's probably not that you need to soak longer...need to figure out how to stop the gear movement...anymore, I usually just go straight to a piece copper...the teeth dig in without marring the gears...

Sandman
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