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Mitchell Reel Museum Discussion Group

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 Post subject: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm • #  
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1st time poster, short time reader. Today I found a 540. Now I need a rod for it. Where would be the best place to find one?

Thanks,


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:59 pm • #  
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Holy Cow!!!!!! Are you sure it's a 540 and not 510?? Just asking because they are very hard to acquire... Most people search for years to have 1 pop up. They basically take the same rod as the 510 and 524. Is it an autobail by chance. Congrats on your find. The pole is definitely easier to get than that reel.......
Kim :sCh_fisherman: :clap :tup


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:21 pm • #  
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Hey ffwayne,

Good on you mate! (See my PM.)


Hey Kim & Mates,

MRM lists the 540 as 1970-71. I'm not seeing it in any Garcia Annuals 1969-72. So, was it uncatalogued by Garcia (USA) and/or European market only by Mitchell?

John


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:04 pm • #  
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Thanks, I kind of feel I stumbled onto it. I will be picking it up on Thursday. At worst I will be out a 2 hour drive. And a day of work :sBo_bouncing2:
Anything special I should look for besides actually seeing the 540 side plate? Of course the handle had to block it.
Attached is what I have so far.


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:16 am • #  
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Wayne, I would drive two hours to look at that reel too..It appears authentic. One of the most valuable Mitchell reels.

Garcia appeared to have distributed these, though it's not conclusive which distribution of Garcia (UK, Canada or US).

If the foot is not scarred, I be hesitant to mount it on a rod...

Sandman


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:56 am • #  
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John, the thread below contains info regarding cataloging these reels. Apparently they were photographed, but the photos were not published, since sales of the 510 and 508 were not considered successful enough to warrant placing the 540 in a catalog and mass producing them.

Sandman

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=466&p=8768&hilit=540&sid=710bef2daa9f4b6590919a651da6546e#p8768


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:12 pm • #  
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I picked the reel up today. It looks nearly flawless to me. Just a few small little scratches that are very hard to see. Sounds like it could also use a pinion shim, but scared to open. Here are a few pics.

:sHa_rollingsmilie:


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:48 pm • #  
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ffwayne,
I haven't been involved in this conversation till now, but with the pictures you've posted, I think I see something that I'm sure some of the other mates will when they see your pictures.

The font of the 540 doesn't look to me like I would expect on this reel. Here's a link to some pics of a 540 so you can see for yourself.

http://www.mitchellreelmuseum.com/index ... tegory/512

Now, I can't be 100% about this because I don't claim to have seen all things "Mitchell", but it looks different than any other Mitchell engraved model number that I've seen, and may indicate something not authentic.

Is there any sign that the 540 could have been placed over another number?

Regards,
Ted Lanham


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:59 pm • #  
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Hi Mates,

ffwayne, welcome to the Group :sSig_welcome2: . The 540 as you now know is a very special find - Congratulations :tup .

Ted I agree with you that ffwayne's 540 engraving looks off but like you (and we have done many times before), never say "never". The engraving is not as precise as I'm used to seeing. Here's my DUAL 540:
Attachment:
Dual 540.jpg

Attachment:
Dual 540 1.jpg

The different locations of the serial number threw me off as well. I have 1 Dual 510 and 2 Garcia 510s and all of the serial numbers are stamped on the side of the fork - Hmmmm. The body of the 510 and 540 is NOT interchangeable though. The rotor stem on the 540 body is longer than the 510 - same as trying to fit a 440 rotor on a 410 body....It won't work :sFun_bricks: . I have little doubt that this is a real 540 with "loose" engraving from the factory. With regards to the serial number...….see follow on post.

Regards,
Chris

P.S. ffwayne, I realize we haven't answered your question with regard to the proper rod for your 540......But I'll answer that too - eventually :sFun_rofl: ---- I'm on a roll here!


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Last edited by cshannon772 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:13 pm • #  
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Hi Again Mates,

With regard to the different locations of the serial numbers on ffwayne's 540 and my 540 and the fact that the serial number on all of my 510s is on the side of the fork, I compared two of my DUAL 500s.
Attachment:
Dual 500.jpg

Here's the first one:
Attachment:
Dual 500 1.jpg

And here's the second one:
Attachment:
Dual 500 2.jpg

Now there can be no mistaking the possibility of changing out the bodies because they are black - the only other black 500 Series Mitchell was the 524 and obviously those bodies weren't interchangeable. So apparently, Mitchell stamped the serial number on the 500 Series reels in two different locations - These reels are identical....except for the location of the serial number :sFun_eyescan: . I have no idea when that change occurred though or even if there was a definition point :sCh_taz:. Just another thing that makes me go Hummmmm!

Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:46 pm • #  
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Chris,
I'm glad you reminded me about the longer rotor stem on the auto-bails that make necessary to have a 540 body. :sFun_bricks:

Since we've run into "loose" engraving before, I own one myself, it's entirely possible that all that I remarked about may have been at the factory.????

Another thing that I have a question about. I can't recall seeing a blank sideplate in circulation. One without a model number on it, unless it was some sideplate for one of the European models. The factory may be the only place where sideplate with no model number could be found. :sCo_hmmthink:


Any thoughts?


Ted Lanham


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:02 pm • #  
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Hi ffwayne,

So now that I've kind of hi-jacked your post, we'll get to your actual question. The Mitchell 540 was never advertised in the United States - only the 508 and 510. Unfortunately the 500 Series was never a big seller here in the U.S.. But these rods will work perfectly with your Mitchell 540.
Attachment:
500 Rod.jpg

Attachment:
500 Rod 1.jpg

This is one of mine with a GM 510 mounted to it - one of my "user" rod/reel.
Attachment:
500 Rod 2.jpg

These rods are not common and will demand a premium price for one in good/excellent condition....but if your mounting a Garcia Mitchell 540 to it, well worth the price! :tup
Hope this helps.

Ted,
The only Mitchell that had no engraving, which I'm aware of was the 1st - 4th Version CAPs up until 1953/54. Although I did see a 308 not long ago on the "big site" which looked factory to me with no engraving on the faceplate...Must have slipped through the QA process :blush .

regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:57 pm • #  
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Chris, thanks for info.

While the model number engraving is a bit rough, this may be a product of early engraving on these reels as indicated by the side stamped serial number. (see Kim's post below from an earlier topic). My vote is for authentic.

"While looking for information on other topics here I noticed the serial number stampings on these feet are in 2 different locations. The reason I think of the change is the numbers are more readable and easier to make the stampings. Your thoughts?? I have a limited amount of these reels to make any further guesses.
GM 510 - 9,087,923 back stamped <<<<
GM 510 - 9,123,291 back stamped

GM 510 - 8,099,818 side stamped
GM 510 - 8,503,354 side stamped
GM 510 - 8,561,456 side stamped

GM 540 - 9,007,622 side stamped <<<<

Somewhere between the GM 540 and the top GM 510 the change occurred.

I also have a Mitchell 500 Black no serial number
Can't tell if replaced foot. No Dual sticker on plate. Picture of reel in Dennis Robert's Value Guide has serial number stamped on the side of the foot.

Kim"

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=5446&p=20507&hilit=540&sid=0ef6687a2004e69b68def58cc1af1e9a#p20507


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:00 pm • #  
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I checked my GM 540 and the stamping is on the edge. Serial number 9,***,***+. Maybe after a certain date Mitchell stamped these on the edge instead of inside flat portion of foot for these style of reels??
Kim :sCo_hmmthink: :sCh_fisherman:


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:41 pm • #  
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To the group,
Once again your knowledge and discussion is priceless. For now it will stay on a shelf for display. Hopefully one day I can display it with a proper rod.
Wayne


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:28 pm • #  
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Wayne,

There were several styles of rods for that reel. The rod blanks were all made by Conolon in CA but one was finished in Europe and labeled "Balzer" "Special", these were for the DUAL Series of reels (and in my opinion much prettier/nicer) and the other was finished in the U.S. labeled "Conolon Live Fiber" (lower quality) or "Garcia Conolon" (higher quality). For your 540, in my opinion you need the Garcia Conolon rod.

Thank you for giving us old, ah, experienced,, (that's better) collectors :sFun_oldguy: a great topic to explore and discuss. So I would propose a new thread for Mitchell (DUAL and Garcia) 500 Series serial number location. We have a good idea of when these models started and stopped, maybe we can define when they changed from side stamped to back stamped or the other way around...Very interesting.

Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:51 am • #  
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
Hi Guys,
the company Balzer Germany had the dual fishing reels from 1971 with the models 500/501, 508/509, 510/511 and 540/541 in the catalog. The associated rods were called Rhone, Meuse, Somme and Saone.
These rods were also offered as a set and only with the Dual 500.
I include two catalog excerpts from the Balzer catalog in 1972, as you can see the prices. I noticed that at that time the Mitchell 440 81 DM and the 540 was only marginally more expensive and that 86 DM.
These days it is very different, the dual fishing reels are very sought after and quite expensive.
Image
Image

With collector's greetings Walter


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:15 pm • #  
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Hi Walter,

Fantastic information and photos :tup . Thank you very much for sharing :clap

Kind Regards,
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:08 pm • #  
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Hey Walter,

May I be familiar (since you and I are Mates) and say Grüß dich? So wonderful to see your contribution here - thank you!

Could you please help us by specifying what Ruten (name/model#) the Balzar catalog lists for the 540/541 Rollen? [Your excellent images (at MRM size limitations) are with text difficult to read.]

John


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:03 am • #  
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
Hello John,
"Grüß dich auch".
Of course I help there.
Here are some bigger pictures.
Image
Image

540 1 0087/00
541 1 0087/10
510 1 0077/00
511 1 0077/10
500 1 0072/00
501 1 0072/10
508 1 0027/00
509 1 0027/10

Dualsets, complete rod and reel:
508 and Rhone 1 1580/18
500 and Meuse 1 1582/19
500 and Somme 1 1582/21

Best regards Walter


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 Post subject: Re: rod for a 540
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:59 pm • #  
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Walter,

Thank you for your catalog enlargements and writing out the model numbers/names!


Sandman,

Thanks for pointing me to the MRM thread with discussion on US cataloging.


Wayne,

As Chris mentioned above, in addition to the Garcia cataloged rods, there were also
Garcia Conolon Live Fiber rods not cataloged by Garcia. If you click the link to the MRM thread, you'll see the decal and other information.

You may also find this thread of interest: Conolon B460

John


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