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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:52 am • #  
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Hi Doug, Steve, and Wallace:

I have three Garcia Live Fiber rods for the forked foot reels.  They are all 2460's and are fairly common.  I believe there is one for sale on ebay now.  Like Doug has said, I am 99.9% positive that the Narmco label will never be found on a rod for a forked-foot reel.

Also, as I promised, here are a few photos of my 2002T Deluxe rod with gold plated guides:

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Image


I do not have the original shipping tube that it would have come with and do not know what that case would have looked like.  The protective sock is thicker material than any others I have seen.

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:53 pm • #  
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Hey Doug,  Great selection of rods.  In your opinion was there anyway to crossover the live fiber rods to the conolon rods and comparibley match models?  If you ever no of a nice condition 2580, I would like to match it up with a 510 reel.  I have always had conventional spinners UL rods with 308's and 408's  or 300's with light action 6-1/2 conolon's,  I will never match what others have managed to collect.  I would like to get a 508 combo though someday.  I just bought a match 440.  Also someday I would like to have a 440 or 330 auto bail.  Thanks Scott


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:58 pm • #  
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Hey Wayne,  Super rod !  thanks very much for showing it to us.  I am impressed.  Regards  Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:21 am • #  
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hi scott,the live fiber and conolon rods will not match up as the rod blanks are a different
color.i have matched up conolon spinning rods with the forked handle rods,the rod blanks
are the same.i have a 2580 6ft rod a 330,440 and a 508 combo if interested let me know.
                                                                                                                      doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:21 am • #  
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Rock wrote:
 Hi Doug, Steve, and Wallace:

I have three Garcia Live Fiber rods for the forked foot reels.  They are all 2460's and are fairly common.
Hi Wayne,

First off, that's an awesome gold plated Conolon rod you have. Can you say when it was made?

Also, I thought I had seen a Garcia Live Fiber with a forked reel seat but some say they don't exist. Can you post a couple pictures for us?

Cheers!
Wallace

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:08 am • #  
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Hi Wallace:

Thanks for the compliment!  Based on the Garcia rod advertisments, I have narrowed the manufacturing date of the Deluxe rod to either 1963 or 1964.  I'll take a few pictures of a 2460 Garcia Live Fiber forked-foot rod tomorrow and post them. 

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:38 pm • #  
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hi scott,wallace,wayne iam a little confused with this conversation.there are garcia
conolon live fiber rods and they are very common.i listed the 3 rods that were available
2459 5ft 6 2560 6ft 6 and B460 7ft.the rod blanks are a lighter color than the 2500
series and not interchangeable with the 2500 series rods.the 2500 series rods  are a
maroon color and are interchangeable with some spinning rods 2508,2512, 2513 and
some more.narmco used the term live fiber and as i said i do not think you will find a
narmco live fiber forked handle rod because narmco was gone by the time the 500
series reels came out.i have 10 garcia conolon live fiber rods for the 500 series and all
 state on the decal made in U.S.A.i have a few garcia conolon live fiber spinning rods
2451 for example and it states (assembled in spain) no made in U.S.A.its getting
deeper.   doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:35 pm • #  
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Hey Doug,  Ok I will always listen to people more knowledgable than me.  Here are my questions that you guys can help me with.  We all agree there were rods / blanks labeled live fiber,  we all agree there were rods / blanks labeled live fiber / conolon,  and we all agree there were conolon blanks.  Question 1:  were all the blanks manufactured the same.?  My thoughts would be no.  Only by inspecting the rods the rod / glass or at least the outer coating is different. Please change my thinking if I am wrong.  If I confused anyone including myself that was not my intention.  Originally I think I responded to an earlier post when someone had asked if I could describe the lettering system after the model #.  When I had posted the 2500 series UL rods I was trying to show that the letters were all over the map.  If I had unintentionally made a reference to the rods for the forked reels back to the UL 2500 series rods that was a mistake on my part and is not correct.  The rods you gave me a reference in your post match up to my database. Some of them I did not have them as forked reel rods. Maybe it is time to give the data base to you, Wallace and Wayne and let you guys  fill in the blanks missing.  in regards to e-mailing you privately I know Wallace wrote about how to do this could you explain again..  I am interested in the items you posted about.  Again I apologize if I confused anyone.  Wallace statement holds true again and I guess I know less than I thought I did, hopefully learning.

Regards,  Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:00 pm • #  
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Hey Scott,

Doug, my very good and dear friend, was chewing me out mate Image

The confusion was from what I said regarding Live Fiber forked rods not specifying I was not talking about the old NARMCO but the new Garcia Conolon rods. We talked over the phone and he forgave me.

Nothing you have said was confusing so please keep up the good work Image

To contact another member, click on "Interact" under the member's avatar, then click on Message Me. You can exchange personal emails, etc., from there in private.

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:01 pm • #  
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Hi guys:

Scott, I know what you mean about the Garcia Live Fiber rods for forked-foot reels being common.  Here are some pictures of one of mine to help clarify what they look like for those who haven't seen them before:

Image


Image


Image


Image

I'm pretty sure that Wallace and Doug have seen these before on ebay.  However, I have not ever seen any kind of advertising for these newer "Garcia Live Fiber" rods and I am not sure why they even returned to using this designation unless they thought that they could sell more rods to people who would still identify with the old "Live Fiber" designation that Narmco used.

I would like to help you with your rod catalogue if at all possible, but I have a number of Conolon rods.  It might be better to get the list from you and see if I can fill in any blanks.

Best regards,

Wayne



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:16 am • #  
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Hey Wayne, I have now realized that I should probably include made in USA or spain etc on the data base.. Also finally see the serial # for the 2460. Nice rod! Scott


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:58 pm • #  
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Here's the info I promised. Just can't find where I hid the pictures to it. When found I'll try and upload or send them to someone more knowledgeable.

CONOLON MISSLITE
6300 Live Fiber
GOLD Eyelits
Custom built by ALFREDO
Conolon Misslite hang tag w/fish emblem
Green canvas type bag w/white cloth type insides
SOCK has Red trim w/Red & Green ties
Aluminum Tube w/proper sticker to contents for year  APPRO:1957-1958
GOLD coated aluminum ree-lock slides

      Kim


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:13 pm • #  
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ImageImagehi scott,two photos of garcia conolon live fiber rods.both are 2451.one made in U.S.A. the other assembled in spain.only one difference the assembled in spain has a black butt cap and black at the top of the cork handle.the made in U.S.A. is brown.send me your email address. doug


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:04 pm • #  
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Hey Kim,  Neat data on the rod.  I will really look forward to seeing the pictures..  Scott


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:31 pm • #  
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Hey Doug,  After Wallace telling me the info to send a private note.  I had sent a note with interest to the items offered.  Did you get my e-mail?   I would like to find out more about the 2580 rod.  Scott


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:07 pm • #  
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      BONANZA,

I took pictures of the pole but for some reason can't get them off the card. I just bought a new card with 4GB memory. My old 512mb downloads just fine. Trying to hook up with a computer friend to see what the problem is.
      Kim 



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:52 pm • #  
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Hey Kim,  I had a simular problem issue when we had a kodak camera.  Bought a Sony.  It works much better but now my wife downloads the photo's.  Take your time, When you have time to do it that is OK.  Thanks for trying.  It is appreciated.  Thanks  Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:34 am • #  
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Hello Mates,

I'm learning more than ever about Conolon rods from your posts than I thought I'd ever know. Thank you all very much!!!

Question: Why did Garcia go back to the old NARMCO fish logo on their Live Fiber Conolon rods!? Any thoughts??

Cheers!
Wallace

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:14 am • #  
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Hi, Wallace:

That is a very good question, mate and one that will likely take some deep research to answer.  I know that Narmco made several rod series including the Missilite, Airflight, Sharpshooter, and possibly others.  I have only a few sharpshooters and an Airflight.  All of my rods have the fish logo sticker and all of them have "live fiber" across the logo.

The Garcia "Live Fiber" rods with the fish logo do not appear to be high end rods compared to some of their standard Conolon rods of the same time period as the wraps, guides, and butt ends appear to be more cheaply constructed.  In my opinion, they are not also as high a quality in construction as the older Narmco rods.  I have one Garcia "Live Fiber" rod that has what appears to be original Garcia Conolon ceramic guides, but this could have been a special order or they may have been replaced at one time.

We know that Narmco was the first producer of the fiberglass fishing rod, which was a true revelation in fishing gear.  Is it possible that Garcia used the name recognition to better sell off some rod blanks that were overstocked?  The Garcia "Live Fiber" rod blanks were also used to a great extent with the forked-foot configuration.  Do you think that again they were trying to use the name recognition to sell lower quality rods to bring the price down on the forked-foot combo's, which were not selling well at the time?

Part of the problem in answering these questions is the fact that there appears to be no advertising regarding these rods, which is very puzzling.  I will see what I can find out through my Garcia advertising contact.

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:28 pm • #  
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Hey Wayne,  Great post.  To follow-up What Wallace said.  I am learning stuff I never though about.  Way cool.  Can you post a missilite and an airflight rod to see the differences. Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:26 pm • #  
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Hey Kim, Wallace, Dries, Doug, Wayne and Steve,

I would like to send out the Conolon Rod file to a select few for viewing, comments, changes, additions and just how to just pesent it better for the general public. I would be honored if you would put your rods in the file if they are not there. Please use the status column to designate it is your rod. Noone will ever see that but me. It will be removed when made public. I belive with all the contributions this small group has made might tell a story about the rods. Hopefully the data file can be used by collectors to help them search for rods out there! Please send me your e-mails privately thru the mitchell mates system so that I can send you the file.

Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:14 am • #  
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Hello,

I have a cane Mitchell Conolon which is in my opinion interesting.

On another forum I had already spoken about this cane but I had had only a single answer (I thank again the person author of this answer).

By following the discussion about rods Conolon Garcia, I saw that there were many specialists on rods (it is not my case!!!), I thus appeal to these to know their opinion.

This rod is a Mitchell Conolon Charles C. Ritz 198 C1 - 7" 10" – WF 6-7F - Made in U.S.A.

She is on the catalog Mitchell 1976, year of death of Charles C. Ritz big specialist of the fly fishing.

Its aluminum case does not represent on catalogs Mitchell in my ownership.

Although made in the USA, there is nowhere a indication Garcia on the rod or on the case.

Best regards,

Christian

Image
ImageImage
Image



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:58 pm • #  
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Looks like your pole and all was marketed to the European mass. Very nice setup. I think they were made somewhere in the mid to late 70's. Going by memory only. I have a few poles from over there. Just would have to locate them. One with and one without the tube. I believe one is Mitchell-Conolon-Special with purple sock flyrod  and black foam handle. Who made the Mitchell Companion Rod by Garcia with the sliding rings reel lock??? They don't have Conolon on them.................... Gold in color with agate guides.
      Kim


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:10 pm • #  
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Hey Kim,  After Missilite, Airflight, and Live fiber the Companion rods came out. They were supposed to be there top of the line rods but they were expensive.  Buyers wanted a choice. Thus the star rating system, and deluxes.  Now the conolons come in and a many many different model #'s.   I won't even bring up the custom stuff that we are having the pleasure of seeing in this thread..  I believe I have my time line correct.  Wayne and Wallace might have more to add.  Regards,  Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:02 am • #  
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hi scott and kim, i have 3 narmco conolon live fiber rods.2 spinning, spin flite 70 and 1
fly rod, cardinal 408. i did not see these two on your list just thought i would mention
them.  doug


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:16 am • #  
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Hey, Doug,  I think that including the missilite, airflight, live fiber and Narmco rods is important.  I originally had included fly rods on the database but found the information extremely confusing.  Mostly because I never took the time to try to comprehend the info.  For this data base I will stay away from the fly rods.  As always Thanks for your influence!  Regards,  Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:11 am • #  
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Hi Scott, et. al.:

I'll post a few pictures of a Missilite, Airflight, and Sharpshooter rods in the next few days when I get some time. 

Scott, I believe that your sequence may be right with Missilite coming out first, followed by Airflight, and then I would add Sharpshooter.  It is my opinion (only speculation at this point) that "Live Fiber" referred to the type of fiberglass blank used in construction of the various rod types and was not a specific type of rod.  I believe this because all of the Narmco rods that I have contain "live fiber" on the label.  Also, I have yet to see a rod that just says "Live Fiber".  I also believe that "Conolon" is a manufacturers brand name, and not a particular type of rod since all of my Narmco and Garcia rods are "Conolon". 

The "Live Fiber" designation was dropped from the blanks after Garcia bought out Narmco and began to manufacture the "Companion" series of rods, and then as Wallace has indicated, for some reason it is picked up again for a short time by Garcia and used to sell what I believe to be a lower quality line of their rods.

The post by Christian is an interesting one with Mitchell's name only represented on a Conolon rod.  Very nice rod and find, Christian!!  I know that Conolon blanks were sold all over the place, and maybe Garcia allowed other manufacturers or distributors to customize their blanks as long as they referred to them as Conolon.  Again, only speculation.

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:17 am • #  
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Hi Christian,

I know little but I'll try to help....

I know Charles Ritz (The Ritz Hotel Chain) designed rods for Garcia Conolon in very limited quantities. The only other one I've seen was a Garcia Conolon fly rod, model number 2060 (?) that came in a similar aluminum case. I agree with Kim that yours had to be marketed outside the States since there's no Garcia name on it.

He also designed Conolon bamboo fly rods with Lee Wolff. This dates the probable history as far back as the 1950s?

I know not to trust Wikipedia, but here's what they are saying as of today:

Charles C. Ritz (August 1, 1891 – July 11, 1976) was a hotelier and fly fishing specialist.

Charles Ritz was born on 1891-08-01, son of César Ritz and Marie-Louise Beck. He did not know his itinerant father well who died when Charles was sixteen. He emigrated to the United States in 1916 where he became a soldier with the United States armed forces.

He went back to America in 1918 after the death of his father and he learned to fish in the torrents of the American West. His first marriage was to Elisabeth Pierce. He returned to France in the 1930s. His experience with fly fishing made him one of the foremost specialists on the subject. He invented the parabolic fly-rod which is still in use to this day and which was commercially produced by Abu-Garcia. He was also a keen publicist for the High speed - high line style of fly casting (HSHL) He also founded the "Fario Club",[1][/sup] which was the most select fishing club in the world from the 50's to the 70's.

Appointed President of the Ritz Hotel[2][/sup] chain in 1953, he tried to introduce his progressive ideas when he opened le bar Vendôme and the l’Espadon restaurant but found himself hampered by the board of directors. He remarried in 1971 and retired from the hotel presidency in 1976, three months before his death on July 11.

He is buried in Père Lachaise alongside his first wife.

I hope this helps Christian...

Best Regards,

Wallace Carney


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:46 am • #  
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hi Christian,

I have never seen the Charles Ritz  fly-rod before and couldn't find it in the Mitchell Arca/Albatros/Balzer catalog of 1975/76.
Was it made for the french market only ?

regards  Dries


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:42 am • #  
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Hi Dries,

These Ritz fly rods were made and sold in the States. Like I said above, I know of one for sure that's a Garcia Conolon sold in the USA. What makes Christian's so unique is even though it was made in the USA, it's definitely for the European market, probably for France sold mainly in the Paris market.

Cheers!
Wallace

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