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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:57 am • #  
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Hello All,

For those who don't know; La Canne a Peche was the inventor of the C.A.P reel who with the help of Carpano & Pons (original designer, owner and manufacturer of Mitchell reels) perfected their reel and Carpano & Pons began production by at least 1939. La Canne a Peche remained the "owner" of the C.A.P reel but had Carpano & Pons build and market their reel until 1954 when they sold the rights to C.A.P reels to Carpano & Pons. By 1955, Mitchell was being engraved on these reels. With that said;

Carpano & Pons to my knowledge never abbreviated their name but did have variations including Carpano et Pons to the latest being, Group Carpano & Pons so when you see "CAP" it could only mean two things; the reel or La Canne a Peche abbreviated as you can see in one of their bags:

Image

To make it more confusing; Cap was engraved on the reel's cover plate for a few years and C.A.P was molded in their reel's housing even after Mitchell took over for a few years. This leads me to two questions:
[list type=decimal][*]Is the CAP "logo" shown above La Canne a Peche's standard logo and more important, when did this logo first appear?[*]Since it has Mitchell on the bottom, would this bag be from the mid to late 1950s?[/list]Any help would be appreciated...

Best Regards,
Wallace Carney

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:26 am • #  
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Hi Wallace,

A good couple of questions on the CAP logo, im hoping someone like Christian will give us the answers to these questions since it was he himself who sent me a couple of these bags when i puchased a 408 special from him a few years ago, one was identical to the one you have shown here Wallace and the other is shown below.

Image

Regards Martin



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:39 am • #  
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Hey Martin,

Now I'm really confused. The logo next to Mitchell on yours appears to make yours much later than mine so are they Carpano & Pons bags? I also received mine from Christian many years ago so I'm sure he can help...

I've not been able to find this in any documents including La Canne a Peche catalogs!?

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:03 pm • #  
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Hi guys:

Great topic!  One that I have wondered about.  Just a few cents of logic thrown into the fray:  a.)  The logo on the clear bag with blue lettering that Martin shows isn't used by Mitchell until the early 1980's and the one that Wallace shows (Mitchell with the red line underneath) isn't used until the early 1990's; b.)  why would Mitchell (Carpano & Pons) use a La Canne a Peche logo?; and c.)  Why couldn't "Cap" or "C.A.P." stand for "Carpano And Pons"?

Is it possible that this trademark once stood for La Canne a Peche, and that after the patent rights were sold, the rights to this trademark were also sold?  Just a conjecture.

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:04 pm • #  
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Hi Wayne,

"Why couldn't "Cap" or "C.A.P." stand for "Carpano And Pons?"

The problem would be the French word for "and" is "et" so it would be CEP. La Canne a Peche translates to The Fishing Rod, their original and continued main fishing tackle product so CAP for them still sound likely to me.

I just found both the CAP "logo" on a 1981 French catalog and both the logo and Mitchell on a 1982 catalog. I've documented these including the company's (La Canne a Peche) continued involvement with Mitchell during this same time.

Since these are not Mitchell catalogs, they must be La Canne a Peche in my opinion. I'll post pictures later to show why I believe this...

Wish I knew for sure Image

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:46 am • #  
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Hey, Wallace:

Thanks for the clarifications!  The bags shown have the Browning and Mitchell Sports trademarks on them, so I would believe the bag in question is from the 1980's or 1990's and not the 1950's.  I wouldn't think that the logo would stand for the C.A.P. reel, since all reference to CAP was removed from the round-bodied reels in the 1950's.

If what you are saying is accurate, then the CAP logo can only be La Canne a Peche (which I didn't know was still producing fishing equipment) and their association with Mitchell has either been a very long one, or was more recently renewed.

It will be very interesting to hear if anyone else has more information regarding this relationship and whether it has been a long-lasting one, or one that was renewed later on (perhaps only until new ownership by Browning and then Mitchell Sports)?  Thanks much for the information, mate!

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:01 am • #  
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Hi Wayne,

I agree with you that these bags are from the 1980s but later than that (1990s) is questionable. To help with relationships and ownership, see the vendor list below from a 1981 Mitchell catalog:

Image

Compared to a Mitchell list from 1982:

Image

I'll also say "Mitchell" was owned by Carpano & Pons from the beginning to 1974 when Garcia (USA) bought controlling stock in the separate Mitchell company. Garcia sold Mitchell back to Carpano & Pons in 1977 who remained the owner till their bankruptcy in 1981. Browning was only the United States vendor and Mitchell Sports (established by Philippe Blime & new owner of Mitchell) was also owned by Mitchell S.A. as their export/import division plus they acted as their distributor in other countries including The States after Browning's short stay.

I'd still like to know when the CAP logo first appeared...

Best Regards,
Wallace Carney

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Last edited by mitchellreels on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:43 am • #  
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Hello,
I watch with attention this discussion, but for the moment I do not have time to make "serious" researches. By trusting me to my memory (it’s not any more as in twenty years!!) I have in my documents an interview of PDG of CAP who evokes the debuts of this mark and his association with the House Carpano and Pons for factory the CAP (304 ).
I also have to have some catalogs with the former logo CAP and one with the new logo.
All that I say in this message appeals only to my memory, leave me the time to look for in all my documents and halieutic magazines but in the days which follow I shall not have time to make these researches, retired man's life is not a long quiet river!!!
Best regards,
Christian


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:43 am • #  
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tirtou wrote:
I have in my documents an interview of PDG of CAP who evokes the debuts of this mark and his association with the House Carpano and Pons for factory the CAP (304 ).
Hi Christian,

That makes sense to me after watching this rod sell on eBay:

Vintage C.A.P. French Telescoping Fishing Rod!!! (180538859692)

This rod is why I was asking this question. It appears to be an early
Canne a Peche rod but I could not find it in any of their catalogs, old or newer. It has this CAP logo as you can see until eBay takes it away.

Thanks for any help you or any others can do.

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:58 am • #  
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Hi, Wallace:

Yeah, my knowledge of these later relationships is limited, but thanks much for showing the distributors lists from the early 1980's.  It helps clear things up for me.  It would seem to me that Carpano & Pons really owned Mitchell from the beginning until at least up until Mitchell was sold to Johnson Fishing, Inc. (mid-1990's?).  I say that because Garcia didn't really own Mitchell outright (they just owned majority stock), and Carpano & Pons still was the holding company for Mitchell Sports.

Fantastic old rod by the way!  I take it from Christian's post that this rod was teamed with the early CAP's.  I have never seen a rod with the La Canne a Peche (CAP) logo before.
Best regards,

Wayne 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:52 pm • #  
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Hi Wayne,

Thanks for the head's up my friend, I've made the corrections above including Blime, President of Mitchell S.A.

Cheers, Wallace

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:55 pm • #  
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Hello,
Just a few lines to indicate that CAP was originally a family business founded in 1919. The company has partnered with a wholesaler of Lyon in 1932 to form the S.A.R.L. (Socièté A Responsabilité Limitée - Liability Company Limited) C.A.P.
Best regards
Christian


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:41 am • #  
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Hello,

 Below some photographs of the logo C.A.P. found on cases of hooks and on different catalogues.

 As you can see it they differ even for the same year.

 To note that the fish changed form again and again.

 This information is succinct, I shall supplement these in some time, I use summer months to do outside jobs and activities, therefore much less than computer.

 Best regards,

 Christian







  


Last edited by tirtou on Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:03 am • #  
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Hi, Christian:

Very interesting how many different versions of the logo that you have been able to find.  They changed quite a bit.  Very nice of you to hunt all of these down and take the time to post pictures of them!!  Interesting to note that the CAP logo changes to the "hooked fish" at the same time that "Mitchell" appears on the closure tabs below (pink colored one's).  Also interesting is the name "Mitchell" along with "CAP" on the 1979 picture of the CAP manufacturing facility in France. 

Was La Canne a Peche a part owner in Mitchell, and if so, did that ownership relation begin in 1954 and continue to---------?

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:00 am • #  
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Rock wrote:
Was La Canne a Peche a part owner in Mitchell, and if so, did that ownership relation begin in 1954 and continue to---------?
Hi Christian, Thanks for all the work!

I don't mean to step on Wayne's question but thought someone may want to see these:

1983 CAP Catalog Front
Image

1983 CAP Catalog Back
Image

1984 CAP Catalog Front
Image

1984 CAP Catalog Back
Image


All Mitchell reel advertisements in these have been scanned and will be added to the Mitchell Reel Museum website soon.

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:20 pm • #  
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Hello,
Press article published in February 1986: Interview with Mr. Millet CEO of CAP
Founded in 1919 in Angers, the family business of manufacturing and wholesale fishing gear was associated with a wholesaler of Lyon in 1932 to form the LLC C.A.P..
CAP was immediately interested in the new generation reels and it was marketed under the name of "CAP", a homemade reel.
Following difficulties in manufacturing due to the 2nd World War, an association was made with the house Carpano & Pons has agreed to manufacture for the "Canne A Pêche" reel CAP.
Mitchell subsequently produced its own reels which the Company C.A.P.has done exclusive distribution in France.
In 1960 C.A.P. has partnered with institutions S.A.P.A., business Valenciennes. In 1970, C.A.P. told to Mitchell the industrial manufacturing of its rods and she has continued to be the distribution in France of Mitchell

In this interview, it appears that the Canne A Pêche was not involved in the manufacture of reels Mitchell, but she has been the exclusive distributor in France for many years.
I looked at my catalogs, in 1988 C.A.P. is present as a distributor. In 1991 it no longer is, but I do not have the years 1989 and 1990.
The rest of the series in the next episode!
Best regards,
Christian


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:13 am • #  
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Hi Christian,

Thanks for the history lesson. Not enough credit has been given to Canne A Pêche for their long lasting roll in the distribution of the C.A.P and Mitchell reels.

Here's the CAP rod in question:
Image

Do you have any thoughts on when this rod was made?

Best Regards, Wallace

PS: I look forward to your next episode Image

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:23 am • #  
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Wallace and Christian:

Awesome work guys in helping answer my question!!  So CAP had a long lasting relationship with Mitchell to the bitter end as their main distributor of reels in France.  Thanks again for the information that helped identify this relationship!

Best regards,

Wayne


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:39 am • #  
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Hello Wallace,

I think that this rod was made by 1968.

On the catalog 1968 Mitchell – CAP page 35, there is the description of  rods which corresponds well to that in photo.

It is a rod in FIBERGLASS of the series Diffusion, reference 1440:

Telescopic 3 stalks, folded length 0.70 m, up 1.75 m - 4 - 15 g, the last piece is in glass full (on the photo Ebay, this part is not of the same color as the rest of the rod).

It is only my opinion, no photo on the catalog 1968.

Attached a scan of the header of a letter of a commercial from Mitchell.

Best regards

Christian

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:50 am • #  
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Hi Christian,

It looks like you have found the missing link showing the same style logo. I will pass this information on to the buyer of this rod. I'm sure he will appreciate all our efforts! I will have him check the total length as well and let you know.

The best news is; we have finally figured out how to be politically correct when using the term CAP.  Do you agree that:
[list type=decimal][*]C.A.P is the reel only as forged on the housing (sometimes misspelled C.A.P.)
[*]CAP could be the reel or the company La Canne A Pêche depending on how it's used[*]CAP and C.A.P is never referring to Carpano et Pons, Carpano & Pons or Charles A. Pons[/list]All the best, Wallace

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:29 am • #  
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Here's 2 scan from a 1966 Belgian fishing magazine, it's about Carpano et Pons and Mitchell having sold their 10.000.000th fishing reel.
The name Thomas was Director of ARCA (the exclusive Belgian distributor for Mitchell).
The article tells a little about the history of Mitchell and Carpano et Pons.
Jean-Paul 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:32 am • #  
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ImageImageSorry, pics didn' work for me
trying again
Jean-Paul


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:34 am • #  
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Greetings Jean-Paul... Welcome to our group Image

Very interesting article on the 10 million medallion, thank you. I have been building an article on these you can see at Mitchell 10,000,000 Medallion in the Mitchell Reel Museum website. It's not surprising the Mr. Thomas was given one but I wish it could be found.

I think I remember an old post from you in another group where you talked about La Canne A Pêche being the exclusive distributor in France except for another company in Paris (only) called MOS or something like that. Do you remember?

Best Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:37 am • #  
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Hi,
In short the article (in french) mentions the following (I'll stick to the relevant information) :
On june 24, 1966 the Mitchell company announced the production of the 10.000.000th reel from their factory.  
"They" (the company) has been located in the Haute-Savoie for over 110 years.
Now over 2000 people work for them in their different factories.  Some working on high-resistance-plastics-factories, other on high-pressure
metal moulding, other working on fishing reels.
For the occasion the group Carpano et Pons, owner of the SA Mitchell, invited their foreign agents (of wich Rene Thomas is the one for Belgium).  Next is a piece about their employees and that most of them originate from the national watch school in Cluses.
That's about it...
Jean-Paul


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:57 am • #  
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Wallace Carney wrote:
Greetings Jean-Paul... Welcome to our group Image

Very interesting article on the 10 million medallion, thank you. I have been building an article on these you can see at Mitchell 10,000,000 Medallion in the Mitchell Reel Museum website. It's not surprising the Mr. Thomas was given one but I wish it could be found.

I think I remember an old post from you in another group where you talked about La Canne A Pêche being the exclusive distributor in France except for another company in Paris (only) called MOS or something like that. Do you remember?

Best Regards, Wallace


Mr.Réné Thomas still had it, but Réné Thomas died a few years ago, his son Marc runned the company till a few years ago,
now it's Marc's son Stijn that runs it.  ARCA has a room with memorabilia that contains stuff like medals, special reels etc,
I'm pretty sure it's in there, I visited the company a few years ago (professionally) and was in that room, plenty great stuff to see,
but I did not pay special attention to any medals (I was looking at the reels...), b.t.w. the room is not open to the public.
But I can ask Stijn about it, I did email him a few times in the past, but I have not met him in person yet (I did meet
his father and grandfather a few times, also about 10 years ago, again on a professional basis.

I'll check the MOS, I do remember something about it but must check my information first.
Jean-Paul 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:06 pm • #  
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Hi,

Here it is as I posted it on reel talk, I'll copy it for the easy reading :

"The first presention was held in the rooms of a company called M.O.P. in Paris, (MOP was a susidiary of the group !). Amongst the early clients was Garcia that later on became the US distributor. MOP held the sales for the Paris region, La Canne à Pêche handled the sales for the rest of France. IMPECCO handled the export."


The original topic, in wich I mentioned some reels that were not included in Dennis' book, just for those interested :
http://orcaon-line.org/reel-talk/viewtopic.php?t=5121&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=canne+%E0+p%EAche&start=25

A little note on the side, in the 1966 magazine there is also an advertisement of the Huis Moerman hehehe
When I noticed it I had the think about another discussion I once had about the Moerman Mitchell's.
Huis Moerman was a small fishing store, just a retailer, one of the hundreds in a small country like Belgium.
In Belgium it is custom that stores put a little sticker of them on the reels and rods they sell, just for the ease of when repairs come in  they can be
sure they sold it and not another store (a matter of warrenty issues I guess).

Jean-Paul


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:54 pm • #  
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Hi,
Just a few old advertisements of ARCA (Belgium) , both mentioning Mitchell and CAP, depending the time  :
- 1954 Mitchell and CAP both mentionned as spinning reels
- 1965 Mitchell mentioned with the spinning reels, CAP for the rods (by this time the CAP reel ware sold as Mitchell's (Cap/304/314/etc)
Jean-Paul
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Image


 



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:35 am • #  
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Greetings Jean-Paul,

Very interesting information, thank you for sharing these with us. I have tried to track down the series of events leading to Carpano & Pons connecting with their very early distributors and/or partnerships. Right now I believe they were in this order:
[list type=decimal][*]1937 ~ Canne a Peche (France)
[*]1945 ~ Millard Brothers (UK)
[*]1946 ~ Garcia (USA)[*]1947 ~ Albatros (Holland)[*]1947 ~ Arca (Belgium)[*]1948 ~ Balzer (Germany)[/list]Naturally the list goes on but for now, what do you think?

Regards, Wallace

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:24 pm • #  
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Quote:
  
Hi,

About the dates :

1) Arca was founded in 1949 and started distributing Mitchell as from 1950
(an article on Arca is being prepared)

2) Albatros was founded by Nelis Vogel, Nelis Vogel opened a small fishing store in 1927 (the story is he sold his Harley-Davidson for 130 Dutch Guilders to pay for his store and stock to begin with).  After WWII (I think) he and his sons Max Vogel and Henk Vogel, founded Albatros as a wholesale company, not sure when Albatros started importing/distributing Mitchell but I think it was indeed a year or so before Arca.

3) Balzer was also founded in 1949 like Arca, Balzer was founded by Mr. Hanns Balzer.
Don't know when they started distributing Mitchell

So these 3 companies all starting importing/distributing Mitchell and CAP just after WWII, pretty much at the same time one might say,
they all did very well the next decades.  Albatros and Balzer have had some rough years, but Arca is still in the hands of the same family since 1949.
They also worked together somehow, catalogs show many simularities (also for the not-Mitchell stuff, so it was not driven by Mitchell).  See other topic for pics of these catalogs

Jean-Paul


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:28 pm • #  
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snoekjager wrote:
Quote:
  
Hi,

About the dates :

1) Arca was founded in 1949 and started distributing Mitchell as from 1950
(an article on Arca is being prepared)

Jean-Paul
I made a mistake, ARCA was founded in 1946.
Jean-Paul
  


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