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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:26 pm • #  
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just wondering about the possibility of someone putting a fork foot on one of the rarer 300 or 400 series, to make one of the even rarer 500s. I understand that all the innards are the same as the corresponding 300 or 400 series. Or Not?? You would definitely need a serial no. for sure. Has anybody run into this???? Makes me even more paranoid...

Topic moved 12/31/09 from Reel Talk by Wallace Carney


Last edited by mitchellreels on Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:12 pm • #  
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Hi Fxxy,

To make one of the rare Mitchell 500 reels the most important parts required is the sideplate and the housing.

For as long as i can remember the housings for 508 and 510 have been readily avaliable on eBay, some fetching silly amounts of money, but i have never seen a genuine black 500 housing or sideplate for sale. Take a housing and sideplate add to it all the parts from what ever series reel you want IE 508 = 408 510 = 410 AND YES REELS CAN BE MADE FROM OTHERS.

Of all the forked foot reels though the 500 & 540 are the hardest to come by so sideplates and housings would make big money, even NOS parts for these reels would get some reel builders attention.

When i first started to collect reels i built myself a 508 simply because i could ( due to parts availability) and because i wanted one, yes i had a reel that was made by myself and not assembled by Mitchell and at first i didn't bother me.
The longer you collect the more you begin to understand how much more important it is to try and collect the genuine article, purchasing a near mint "genuine" DUAL 508 from a reputable collector was for me a small but big occasion if you know what i mean, the 510 was rather too easy.

Just going back to the BLACK 500 i have seen these reels made from 510 parts, a blue 510 housing painted black with a 300 sideplate on was one of the worst i came across, i have also seen one with a pre 300 sideplate on it but for some reason it was difficult to use sounding more like a bucket of nails going round.

These reels (508, 510) are easy to build if you have the correct parts, saying that if you had a "GENUINE" reel and broke it you would need a NOS part to fix it.

Regards Martin


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:56 am • #  
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Hi Martin

I agree with all you say about the Mitchell 500 series .I think that even a master welder would leave traces if he puts a fork
on a frame .

Hi Fxxy,

Genuine Mitchell 500 series reels are becoming rare ! There's always a chance that someone tries to restore a 500 reel and

if that reel stays in his own collection ..no problem .
The current Mitchell sites like ;www.mitchellreels.net show pictures of genuine 500 series reels to avoid confusion .
If you have doubts about a reel i am sure we're able to help .

regards Dries






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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:06 am • #  
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Hello Mates,

I moved this topic, hope you don't mind Image

I have seen a fake 306 with a 510 fork foot welded on and repainted.

It was obvious to me but some thought is was original.

Regards, Wallace

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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:26 am • #  
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hello mates
about the duals
i have 2 dual 500 whit a 300 side plate
longtime a was looking to ghet a side plate for my 500 whit 500 engraved imposible tho find til one day on e bay there was a 300 for selling whit the side plate dual and 500 engraved
i was buying this reel and move the side plate from the 300 tho my dual 500 and the plate was fitting exactly the richt way my 500 now i have a 500 complete and another 500 whit a 300 side plate those 2 reels have the serial number stamped on the foot

i was very surprised to find the 300 whith a 500 sidce plate so i was question the seller why he put a 500 side plate on ther reel
the man is a 75 yaers old man and told me he never change anything on his reel he even do not know what dual is he was selling the reel becouse of his age he told me was no more going fisching and he has sel the reel like he has buy him about 40 years ago
i have buy my 2 reels in france one in the north and one near marseille this is about 1000 km separation
i have seen at last 3or 4 reels dual 500 whit a 300 side plate the last months for selling on e bay and on other sites
my question is now: why so many duals 500 whit a 300 side plate why the people changing ( if they chaingin it) the side plate ??????????????
it there a posibilitee that mitchell in the thime on the factory they make a mistake on some reels ?specially on the 500 dual ?
i can not belive so many people the change the side plate if yes why ???????????
i have open this question on another mitchell discusion group some months agoo but no satifaction reply
maby sombody can clear up this ? fake or factory mistake
decorte johnny france
my question is now
my question is now the following


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:12 pm • #  
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Hi Johnny,

As collectors we know that the Mitchell 500 is a rare and desired fishing reel, we also know an authentic model can make good money, its here that unless someone with more knowledge than i on these great reels can help us out, i would consider any reel black with a forked foot and NO 500 sideplate to be questionable at this time.

As i see it fakes are all to easy to make now and 300 sideplates are 2 a penny on eBay just like 510 housings were last year, how many forked foot reels have been on eBay with 410 sideplates on? I can think of four i have seen, just like our auto-bail/pro reels they are all to easy to forge for the fraudsters who wish to help themselves to our hard earned money, i have only ever seen 3 reels which were dressed to be a Mitchell 500, 1 was authentic, another was a sprayed 510 body with 300 sideplate and nice runs in the paintwork, the last one had a pre 300 sideplate and would not even wind correctly, it felt like a bag of spanners when wound.
Lets face it here Johnny you have a complete Mitchell 500 now, a reel which you have built and declared with honesty at putting together yourself, does this matter for your collection, i would say not but it just goes to show how it can be done.

Just going back to your question Johnny about these reels and people changing sideplates, it would be great if somebody can answer about the possibilities of Mitchell making these reels with a 300 sideplate, but i cant see why, it would be like Citroen putting a C5 badge on a C4 body Image, in my eyes pointless.

Just my thoughts, Martin


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:55 am • #  
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hello martin
i agree whit you why fixing a logo c3 on a citreon c4?
why fixing a side plate 300 on a dual 500?i think i say i think because so many dual 500 ( whith serial number and NOT repaint ) in france whit a 300 side plate and the side plate fits corectly the reel i think mitchell has in the thime doing a production error and sell 500 whith 300 plates anyway if yes the buyer do not always look nearly the reel and if you looking fast 300 and 500 are verry similair and then when you buy the reel new you ghet the box whit dual on the box
what are the other members thingking ?????????wallace ?roy?christian ?jim? and everybody else?????????????


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:25 am • #  
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Hi Johnny,

I have also noticed many 500 series reels with the 300 cover plate that appear to be authentic including paint and serial numbers. I believe you may be right that "some" of these could be factory made but as Martin said, there are a lot of fakes so as always, buyer beware...

Kind Regards, Wallace

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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:14 am • #  
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Hi Johnny

I really don't have much to add to this topic as I have never actually seen one of these reels.
When I first heard about this I thought they must have been made from spare parts but from what you and Wallace have told us, maybe not. I know that Wallace can smell a parts reel from miles away.

Is it possible that Mitchell assembled a whole batch of reels without realising they were using the wrong cover plate. Or could it be they had an urgent order for 500’s and at the time only 300 cover plates were available. Who knows, I guess we've learnt already that almost anything is possible.


Kind regards Roy



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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:01 am • #  
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hello roy
i think and are schure that mitchell in the thime ha done a mistake  when they asembled the 500
there are to many reels like this in france up to now i have seen 6 for sale and i have 2 like this
how many people have change the side plate from his reels ???????
i never change a side plate becouse i have never broken one  and what is the advantage to change a side plate 500  to a 300 plate ?
all the reel i have seen they have a serial number include mine
johnny


ps sorry for image jiont it is a mistake i was try to put the pictures of the 500 but did not work
annc could not take of the image   i am double zero in computer 



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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:44 pm • #  
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Hello Johnny
Yes I believe what you are saying my friend, I just wondered if it was done by accident or if they knew they were fitting the wrong plate but had no option.

If you send the picture to me I will post it for you

roy@mitchellmates.com



Kind regards Roy


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:39 pm • #  
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Hello Johnny
Thanks for sending these pictures

Firstly a normal 500
Image

Secondly the reel with the 300 side plate that Johnny wants to show
Image

Kind regards Roy


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:57 pm • #  
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Hello,
My thought seeing the pictures of 500 with coverplate 300: if Mitchell has really made such reels, he had to draw on stocks coverplate old seven to eight years (see anti-reverse).
Just my thoughts
Best regards,
Christian


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:54 am • #  
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Hi Mates,

Indeed Christian my thoughts were exactly the same as yours with the A/R lever, as we can see in Johnnys photo the digits 300 are stamped like 3-0-0,  records show there were sideplates made with 3-0-0 on the early 7th version sideplate but with the straight A/R lever which came in around 1968.
As for accidents and options Roy i cant wear that one mate, the company was in its prime at the time compiled pieces of "make do's" i would of thought were a NoNo.
Of course these are just my thoughts here if someone could make this stick im all ears.

I guess we could go on with all sorts of possibilities but in all fairness a Mitchell 500 should have 500 stamped on the sideplate, i cant see for the life of me WHY Mitchell would want to endorse a 500 series reel with a 300 sideplate when all they had to do is stamp/engrave another batch of 500 sideplates, then again saying that if 3,293 reels were produced then am i sure these reels are old enough to show if the sideplate matches the housing or am i a bit in front here?

Regards Martin


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:43 am • #  
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Hello Johnny,

As you know the Mitchell 500 Dual is a very rare reel ,just over 3000 produced.
A part of the 500 series reels was never sold and went back to the Mitchell factory.
The reason for this was that you couldn't use the reel without the special rod and many vendors
had reels or rods left over.
My guess is that the reels that were returned were resold as parts reels thus came in to circulation everywhere.
Just my thoughts.

cordialement   Dries


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:03 am • #  
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Hi Dries,

Now that you say about reels being returned THAT MAKES SENSE my friend, the reel without the rod was pretty much useless i guess, so unless the angler/customer had a rod which had the fitting to take these reels they could of been sitting on the shelf for ages.
Do i take it that Mitchell did what we know as "Returns"? I also see why so few were made which in turn makes the reel rare.
Thanks for this information Dries, very useful.

Regards Martin


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:56 pm • #  
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Hi Martin ,

I have to add that the Mitchell 500 series that were sold as combo's (dual), the cardboard box was often thrown away ....by the vendor .
At the time the box had no value and collecting reels was in it's early stages. that makes a box super rare !

regards Dries


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 Post subject: Faking a 500 Series Reel
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:40 pm • #  
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Hi Dries,

I always find myself looking at the boxed 500 Wallace & Mike have on the museum, box and all it is a stunning looking reel, what a shame they never made these reels in a "leftie" version.

Regards Martin


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