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Mitchell Reel Museum Discussion Group

If you are looking to collect, buy, repair, service, learn, ask questions or go fishing with a vintage Mitchell Fishing Reel, you are at the right place! We are just Mitchell Reel collectors and enthusiast who enjoy an open discussion forum on "vintage" Mitchell Fishing Reels. Please Click Here to learn how to make a post and ask about Mitchell reel service or repairs, get advice on buying or collecting, or any other question in this free public forum.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:26 am • #  
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Greetings sdxxm1,
Welcome to the Mitchell Reel Museum forum.
The serial number non your reel would make a 1972 model. The number 4 doesn't have any significance.
Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:53 pm • #  
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Howdy,
I´m new in forum from Slovenia.
I have reel Mithcell LC20 - made in Japan.
There is nothing written on this reel...
Please, help me...
But I'm the proud owner of Mitchell 300 pro nr. R-5-06 :sBo_bounce2:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:05 am • #  
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Hello Fiks1,

Welcome to the group! I googled your reel, this is what I could find on your reel. Looks to be a more modern reel. You should be able to e-mail Mitchell (Pure Fishing) to get more information if needed. http://www.totalseamagazine.com/top-gea ... spool-reel

I hope this helps! Good luck.

Regards, Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:28 pm • #  
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Hi,

This site is great and love browsing the site and your passion for Mitchell products. Very few sites come close to this for the vast information available on fishing reels.

Anyway I recently acquired a 1/2 bail classic egg-shape and it appears to be an early 3rd version.

Serial number A02023 clearly stamped on top of reel seat (close to edge) with separate "5" stamp just off-center on top of reel seat
Bail does not have the upward sweep like some of the other later 1/2 bail versions I have seen (just a bit off parallel to the top of the rotor)
Flat baffle under spool with no perforations
Aluminum handle knob (looks like it may have been anodized a dark blue or black originally)
Seems to have the slow oscillation (non-cross wrap)

Reel is in decent shape with the typical paint loss on bottom and edge wear with some primer showing thru.

Looking thru the reel dating section it appears I may have something here but want to confirm with real experts on this.

Tx, Low Profile


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:50 pm • #  
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Hello Low Profile,

Welcome to the Group :sSig_welcome2:, glad that you enjoy the Museum site. Congratulations on your very early 3rd Version Mitchell Half-Bail. You have researched your reel very well so I would have little to add. Your Mitchell dates to 1949/50 and is a very early serial number. The bails on these reels are made of chrome plated brass and can become deformed over the years but they can be carefully bent back into proper shape. The only ones I would not do this to are New/Mint in the box in fear of cracking the chrome but otherwise, if they are not too far bent, some minor forming of the bail wont hurt. Enjoy the site :sHa_biggrin:

Regards,
Chris


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:59 pm • #  
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Chris,

Thanks for the info. I think i'll leave the bail as is for now. The chrome is near 90% and smooth.

I do have a question about the spool. It does have the metal drag knob (knob does not have #2 roman numeral stamp) and aluminum base (with France printed on base) but the actual spool is a shallower plastic version (lip and arbor portion). Is that spool original? I do have some older spools that are all metal and am wondering if the all metal spool would be more original to the reel.

Tx,

Low Profile


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:57 pm • #  
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Hi Low Profile,

Your spool is period correct for that reel. The Roman Numeral II is the shallow spool which has a metal base, metal drag knob and the spool itself is plastic. The deep spool will be all metal and have a Roman Numeral I on the drag knob. Either are period correct for your reel. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:39 am • #  
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I have been doing a bit of casual research over the last couple of years and I find myself coming to the conclusion that the Dating Guide may contain some errors.( sorry)
Whilst there are records showing some fishing reels were made in Cluses during the War years, they were small one-man outfits and Carpano et Pons are not recorded as making the Mitchell reel during that period.

This rather throws out the sequence of changes made to the reel in the first decade or so.

Do we have anyone who can say...for example...I bought this reel on such-and-such a date before 1960 and here it is?

As far as I can ascertain the 'first' versions were only made in France and only offered for sale there in 1946. No egg-shaped reels were made before then.

The 'second' version was made from 1947 to 1950 and the 'third' from 1950 to 1953.

I've found out why 'fourths' were available in the US in 1953 but not allowed into the UK until September 1954.

I don't think Garcia stickers appeared on US reels until 1955 and I now know why Garcia appeared on UK reels in 1967.


I have a host of circumstantial evidence to back all the above up, but I put some in a post on a UK forum which Mates can read here if they choose to:

http://traditionalfisherman.com/viewtop ... g+mitchell


You'll see a few references to a Richard Walker there. 'Dick' as he was sometimes known might be considered the father of carp fishing here in the UK where they are revered by many as the ultimate fish to go after. I know the scene in the US is somewhat different and like Australia and South Africa they can be seen as a pest.

Here in the UK they were thought of as uncatchable until September 1952 when Dick caught a 44lb. monster (using a Mitchell!) and set the British angling world alight.

Dick was a clever man who designed and made his own split cane fishing rod for the purpose...the Mark 4, usually written in the old style as Mk.IV using Roman numerals. He was involved in designing radar during WW2, assisted in creating the first fibreglass rods after the war and also with the very first carbon-fibre rods.

He designed the electronic bite alarm ( for night fishing) which enabled him to catch the record fish and many other gadgets to do with fishing including his own magnesium centrepin reel with brake. Lost for 50 years his reel was discovered again only recently

He wrote a lot of books on fishing including the ones referenced in the post linked to above.

After he picked up a Mitchell reel he fished with it exclusively and was pleased when full bail and left hand wind versions appeared writing about both changes in his books.


Mitchell later presented him with a commemorative reel for the carp record....no doubt it helped their sales in the UK enormously......

Please read the thread on the UK forum and tell me what you all think. I have some other things to back up the dating ideas and of course I'm happy to share them here. Some of the memoirs of wartime in Cluses are pretty harrowing, including rounding-up of men to go and work in the German factories after the Italian surrender saw the Germans take over the area from their ally.


.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:22 am • #  
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Hello bailarm,
Your post has been a very interesting read, and has brought up many questions about dating these great old reels.
It's obvious that you have put a bit of time into this, and I will not dispute a thing you've written.
I, also, am not qualified to dispute the dating chart that the Museum has listed for the many who feel a need to get some amount of history on these reels.
Here in the US, we have many older workers that have worked in various industries, that help us youngsters with many details of production, methods, and backgrounds of their respective workplaces.
For example, there was a axe manufacturer called "Kelly Axe" that was located in my home town that started production in 1904, was bought out by American Fork and Hoe in 1930, then sold to True Temper in 1949. There were many generations of families that worked at this axe plant till the time it closed in the 70's.
It is easy to find out any minute details about this plant and its products, just by asking around a bit, and even find example of its products being held by those family's that worked there. There are still a few of these workers still walking around that worked at the plant in the 1940's.
Other than the language difference, it has always seemed to me that if I were to do any research on Mitchell reels that I would manage a trip to France to see if I could find out from the actual people involved with that production, and not rely on pamphlets, catalogs, and other such material. Many times they can be misleading just as such material is in today's world.
These kind of things are a big help, but ,I think, not a deciding factors.
I have had thoughts about the date that Mitchell used as the beginning date of the "300" egg shaped reels, but I've decided that as a marketing tool, the 1946 date may have been a better tool for selling to many of the veterans that may been exchanging bullets with the Vichy French.
I have older friends of mine that still refuse to even consider buying a Japanese car.
Just My Opinion,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:38 am • #  
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Thanks for reading the post on the UK site and further thanks too for your reply here, Ted.

If I were relying on just one piece of evidence to prove a point it would indeed be tenuous to say the least, but since I am relying on not one, but several, which all seem to offer the same conclusion, I am fairly confident that I have it about right.

I've read your reply through a few times now and I'm not sure I understand your second point , ....the one with regard to the 1946 dating that Mitchell themselves state in several different publications.

Are you suggesting that Mitchell might falsify the date they made the first egg-shaped reels as a 'marketing tool'?

I can't see what advantage such a falsehood would avail them of. What is so special about 1946 that it would sell reels? After all, the War in Europe ended in early May 1945.

By the way the Vichy was not really an armed force exchanging bullets with Allied forces, but a Nazi-friendly French Government installed by the Germans under French Marshall Phillipe Petain to govern the free zone in the South. The actual remaining French Armed Forces were disarmed and worked practically as slaves by the Germans, hostage to Nazi demands for food, goods and gold.
It was only ever a puppet government and lost all authority in 1942 and it was gone by 1944 anyway.

You can read a bit about it here on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France


The town of Vichy, just about the very centre of France isn't too far from Cluses actually.


Don't feel too sorry for the Vichy officials, by the way...they were little better than the Nazis in truth and happily carried out the same sort of racial annihilation their overlords did...they just didn't get hanged for it. They particularly didn't like the British, but it was their own countrymen, under General de Gaulle's GPRF that finally dealt with them.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:54 pm • #  
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bailarm,
I do respect the research you have put on this subject, but I am somewhat skeptical of anything based on marketing information, in general, and even more so today.
I do think that someone, at Mitchell, in 1946 may have thought that the French/German connection ,till late 1944, would have prevented some returning American soldiers from even considering buying a French made product, and that number could have been in the hundreds of thousands.
By VE Day there where 3 million American soldiers in Europe.
I'm not saying that this would occur 100% of the time, but I'm sure that some of those feelings existed.
Maybe, the British are more understanding about these matters.
That said, it would be great to have undeniable evidence of the development of the Mitchell egg shaped reels.

Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:57 pm • #  
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Hello,

This period of the Second World War in France is a subject which earned me a different with Wallace. Vichy was not France, I leave to the English-speaking countries the task of debating among themselves about it. Just listen to the words of the song of Leonard Cohen's "The Partisan" you will understand that the French were not all favorable to Vichy. I often listen to this song when I travel by car, L Cohen is one of my favorite artists.
Christian, who was born in June 1946 in liberated France.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:46 pm • #  
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Christian,
Please, do not take my post as an indication of anything other than speculation, on my part, that this period may have had something to do with Mitchell deciding on a date for their advertisements after the war.
I'm pretty sure that there were Mitchell executives that were aware that there were soldiers in the American army that still had hard feelings even about our Civil War, and they wanted them to be customers.

I am a big fan of Leonard Cohn, but I hadn't heard "The Partisan" before. This is a very moving song, and I can fully understand your connection.

Christian, I'm sure you have looked into this dating dilemma, so what are your thoughts? Have you had anybody tell you that they had contact with an egg shaped Mitchell during the war?

Is my theory just something that I have conjured up, in my mind, to support the Museums dating chart?

Regards,
Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:47 am • #  
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Ted, well done for even considering the possibility that you might have 'conjured up' the theory to support the Dating Guide.

Not that many people are so open-minded. I take my hat off to you......

I think the Vichy authorities must be viewed in much the same way as we might view our own 'black shirts' here in the UK...a bunch of rebellious bigots who just happened to get lucky in the case of France...not so lucky in the case of Britain. But no doubt Mosely and his gang would have been placed in positions of authority had the Nazis successfully invaded the UK.

Incidentally, when young Mosely used to live in my village! An old, old cottage once used by a king to hide away his mistress.

I think Christian is best placed to tell us what he has found out about the early days of the 'egg-shaped' reels. Maybe he can even get Madame Poirier, the Cluses town archivist, to reply to a letter...I and my friends can't!

Mme Florence POIRIER


Mairie de Cluses
BP 99
74302 Cluses Cedex

Tél : 04-50-96-69-44
archives@cluses.fr


I've put quite a bit on the TFF about my research over the last few years. Incidentally, I use the name Nobby over there...I used to be Nobby on this forum too in the early days but couldn't log-in one day and it's taken me 5 years and many attempts to re-apply for membership. Naturally I tried to contact Wallace several times to let him know I was posting some stuff in the UK that slightly disagreed with him...it seemed only polite to do so...Wallace was a member of TFF as well, you see, but I never did manage to raise him.

Here's some links:

http://traditionalfisherman.com/viewtop ... es#p236974

This was meant to be a study of a second version, but we got distracted :sHa_biggrin:

http://traditionalfisherman.com/viewtop ... es#p234283


I think it's perfectly possible for us to disagree about a point like gentleman and wait until we have all the information before making a final decision. I shall be perfectly happy to be proved wrong one day...honest!

Best wishes to all, Nobby Clark

By the way..I once joined another American forum under my name 'Nobby' Clark. it caused a bit of confusion.....

You see I was once a motorcycle mechanic and tuner...just not that Nobby...

http://www.therevcounter.co.uk/threads/ ... ycle-forum!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:01 pm • #  
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bailarm,
In my, nearly, 73 years I have been wrong about many things, but I'm skeptical of anything that I feel is the product of a Marketing mind. I'd prefer information gleaned from other sources.
Now, a response from Mme POIRIER would get my attention.

Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:13 pm • #  
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Oh, I forget to say...in case you missed it on TFF...Mdme Poirier is the co-author of this book:

https://www.amazon.fr/MOULINETS-VALLEE- ... 2746651122


Another one for Christian, I think.......


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:11 pm • #  
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hello bailarm,

I know very well this book prefaced by Florence Poirier.
The author, Gilles Ollivier is a friend of mine with whom I had many discussions.
In this book, in the "thanks" I quoted to Mitchell (Mitchell including history) and other French brands produced in the Arve Valley.
I also participated by my pictures to the publication of a book on the reels Bretton also produced Cluses.

In some books in your native language, the authors put my name in the "thanks" (Dennis Roberts, Mike DiMattio, James Partridge), I have always shared my knowledge with Mitchell Mates.

In France I did the Mitchell part of the Great Book of French Reels, published three times in various versions since 2007 (without any "money", just for the pleasure to share!). In these books are also some unusual pictures french reels I own.

It is not my intention to value me, just these words to show you that I do not hide anything, everything I know about Mitchell, I shared
Best regards,
Christian


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:34 pm • #  
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Christian,
I have always appreciated and respected any information that you have shared on the forum.
I sure many others feel the same as I do.
Regards,
Ted Lanham


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:51 am • #  
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Christian, those nations who use English as a language sometimes use the expression 'showing-off'.

I'm sure no one here thinks this of you! Most Mitchell enthusiasts have heard of you and many also know of your excellent web-pages and your marvellous collection of reels.

Any information you share with us here is, I am sure, gratefully received and we all hope you continue to do so.

You are surely best placed to speak about the early days at Carpano et Pons and as to just when they first made the reel that was later called the 300.

A number of things confuse me as I speak practically no French; just how did CetP come to take over the town clock-making school for fishing reel production, for example?

As a town facility paid for by local resident's taxes how did they end up owning it? This must have happened post-War as I read that the école was the German garrison after the Italians surrendered and were rounded up by the Germans. For those unfamiliar with European history...just think Captain Correlli's Mandolin to explain how Axis allies became enemies

By the way Mitchell fans, you may have seen on the main site here, a section of the Mitchell reel patent application. This was actually taken from a book on fishing patents called To Catch A Fisherman, 'privately published' by Jamie Maxtone-Graham a second-hand fishing tackle dealer who was indeed very good at 'catching' fisherman......

What Jamie's book showed was just what is called the 'abstract' of a patent...the brief outlines or a précis.

The full patent UK application can be found here:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... cale=en_GB

If you use the page selector you can view all the application, including all the drawings of which there are 4 pages

And here is the French one from just 5 days earlier:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... cale=en_EP

You'll note that neither patent application includes an anti-reverse......and they are both from the Summer of 1948.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:33 am • #  
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hello bailarm,
It is not clear for me to understand everything it says on the forum, the automatic translator is not a panacea, some times does not understand the exact meaning of the phrase. Finally it's like that for years and I still hope for several years, I have fewer years to pass that I already had!
My opinions on the date that is subject to controversy: 1946, great year !!!
1949 is the date that a document Mitchell I have gives a number of reel made for this year (3750).
For the French patent in 1948, it is part of the documents that I have stored on my microphone (searches are time). These patents are very interesting even if the drawings do not always correspond to reel manufactured .

Best regards,
Christian


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:46 am • #  
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Ah...Christian, I had no idea you were using a translator to post here!

They are not good at making things understandable every time.

I was trying to say that I believe everbody thanks you for posting here. Particularly now that we know how complicated it must be for you!

I look forward to reading your next post.

Let's hope the translator gets that right and we hear from Christian again soon


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:42 am • #  
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I have previously stated that I feel that getting a hold of aluminum to make reels wood be very difficult in occupied Europe as it was a strategic material in aircraft production. It was even rationed in the USA and we had a better and more secure source of ore than the Germans did. Many German aircraft parts were made of wood due to this.

But even here, to get a new tube of toothpaste, you had to turn in your old empty tube, again due to the strategic status of aluminum.

However the years 1939-45 were such an upheaval that anything is possible.

German Quick Reels were made until 1943, for example, due to Hitler not wanting to upset the German people with hardships...given his view that the morale of the German home front collapsing in 1918 had lost WW1. By 1943 however, it was obvious that all non-essential consumer good production had to stop...when Speer assumed full responsibility of production.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:12 pm • #  
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Hello,
Newspaper article from October 1971: two photos
I have another of June 1963 news article on testing the Mitchell 300 giving 1947 as a year of manufacture.
Just real French documents.

Christian

Attachment:
20m Mitchell.jpg

Attachment:
ANTHOINE.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:49 pm • #  
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Nice find Christian! Bravo. That seems indisputable.

So first designed in 1946.

Production run started 1947

Patents applied for in France and Untied Kingdom 1948.

That does seem to tie-in with everything else I had found.

Smead, it seems the German authorities did give permission for some fishing reel production during the later war years...though like you I can't imagine where the foundries found the bauxite!

One poor chap was making reels ( sorry I forget his name) but was reported to the Gestapo for some reason. The Gestapo for that area would appear to have been in Lyons...that means Klaus Barbie............

It doesn't bear thinking about.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:57 pm • #  
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What fabulous reference material, Christian, for which I am extremely grateful. It is so precise. March 1947. Fantastic.
Of course, the photo is posed and shows, I think, Melle. Maniglier. I think it purports to be the after sales service dept.
Madame Anthoine who assembled the first reels is shown as an honoured guest at the celebration reception : quite right too.
I was surprised at the low production number for 1949 and this suggests that Madame Anthoine might have assembled all of the first reels in 1947. I imagine she could have managed around 20 a day quite easily.
No doubt others will disagree, but in my opinion this is very important material that perhaps settles the vexed question of the birth date of the Mitchell once and for all. It also fits nicely with what has been discovered in the UK.
Merci beaucoup, Christian


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:00 am • #  
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Hi Wallace
The highest I can go from my records is A74901 & C95101

แทงบอล maxbet


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