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408 - Shame
http://mitchellreelmuseum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=6035
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Author:  Balvar24 [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  408 - Shame

This one was a shame. I took a chance because the exterior looked brand new.

Inside was another story. Not sure what would cause this, but the gears have been wore away to mush.

Author:  Ted Lanham [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Belvar22,
Are the gear actually gone? Does the reel work at all? The reason I ask is that the picture looks like it just might be a metallic looking grease.
Ted Lanham

Author:  Balvar24 [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

The teeth are pretty much completely gone from the drive gear, and the teeth on the pinion are wore down considerably. The reel doesn't work at all.

Author:  Ted Lanham [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

I have never heard or seen anything like that before. :sCh_taz:

Ted

Author:  Balvar24 [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

I wonder if it had something to do with the grease?

I know some transmission oils are not rated for yellow metal. The brass in side looks really yellow, like you would expect something brand new to look. Absolutely no oxidation.

Author:  Ted Lanham [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Balvar24,
The reel looks like it has hardly been used, so something has been eating on the brass.
I sent you another PM.

Ted

Author:  CDSAND7640 [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

That is a shame...I think the grease looks metallic because of all the metal gear shavings in the grease....only way I can think of to shave the gears down is to not have the gears align....or, have one gear turn while the other stationary....never seen one that bad before.....are the A/R gear teeth on the opposite side of the main gear in tact?

Sandman

Author:  Balvar24 [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

The a/r works, but I've never disassembled it any further to inspect the gears or dog.

Author:  CDSAND7640 [ Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Since the A/R works, the only way to grind down the gears is to turn the crank handle in retrieve mode and hold the rotating hand so it won’t move...pretty hard to do...understandably, I’ve never tried hard enough to do this...

Just had a thought, if the thrust washer is missing, there would not be as much positive gear connection...the main gear would be a little loose causing slack in the gears...I would take the main gear out and check...you will need to anyway to make the reel useable.

Sandman

Author:  Balvar24 [ Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Both the main gear and pinion are toast. Odd thing is that they appear to be wore fairly even.

Author:  Bonaventure [ Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

If the rotor were held and the reel handle turned, the main gear ould wear itself eveniy all the way around. The pinion gear would not, but would only show wear on the contact area of the main gear.

Author:  Bonaventure [ Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

If the rotor were held and the reel handle turned, the main gear ould wear itself eveniy all the way around. The pinion gear would not, but would only show wear on the contact area of the main gear.

Author:  Balvar24 [ Tue May 14, 2019 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

I managed to pick up a $15 408 parts reel to scavenge the gears out of. Turns out, it's an old style 408 with the knurled nut on the pinion gear.

How do I get the pinion gear out of the cup? Is it threaded? Similar process for the new and old styles?

Does anyone predict issues with sticking the older style pinion in place of the new style?

If so, I've got a 308 that I could devote these parts too. I kind of like the look of the black reels better anyway.

Author:  CDSAND7640 [ Tue May 14, 2019 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Balvar, instructions below...new and old style are same procedure...ensure you place any washers back the same as they came out...they are different thickness washers (one above rotor and one below)...don't take the knurled nut off once you get the pinion out of the rotor, or loosen it too much unless you are prepared to chase tiny ball bearings...

Sandman

Easiest procedure for pinion removal:

Remove axle.

Remove hex nut.

Remove pinion set screw, pull rotor off of housing with pinion still attached.

Apply penetrating oil to pinion threads at top and bottom of rotor, let soak overnight.

Re-attached rotor to housing, leave hex nut off.

insert axle, with planamatic parts and oscillation block (this is very important - essentially, put it all back together including the crank handle, except the pinion set screw)

Also very important - TURN A/R LEVER IN OFF POSITION, so it is not engaged or you can ruin the main drive gear A/R teeth...

Use a bit of rag (I’ve successfully used wood and even copper without damaging gear teeth) to jam pinion and main gear.

Rotor should unscrew easily.

Author:  Balvar24 [ Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Soaking now. I may add some Kroil for good measure.

Thanks.

Author:  Balvar24 [ Wed May 15, 2019 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Righty tighty, lefty loosey, correct?

And why am I leaving the set screw out?

Author:  CDSAND7640 [ Wed May 15, 2019 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Yes, lefty loosey...

The pinion set screw will hold the pinion gear to the rotating head...must take it out...

make sure you take off the washer below the axle hex nut too...probably should include that in the instructions...

It's not absolutely necessary to have the crank handle installed when turning the head off of the pinion, because the effect of having it installed is potentially making he crank handle really tight...I leave it on to help with leverage, but am careful not to crank too much on it...

Sandman

Author:  Balvar24 [ Wed May 15, 2019 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Hmm. Must need more soaking.

Author:  CDSAND7640 [ Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

The hardest part is finding just the right size and shape of rag/wood/copper that will jam between the main gear and pinion well enough to keep the gears from not moving when you rotate the head off the pinion...once you have it jammed well, hold the body in your left hand and the head in your right, then unscrew the head by turning the top of the head toward you (lefty loosey)...shouldn't be too hard...I use copper to jam the ones that are really stuck...

Sandman

Author:  Balvar24 [ Wed May 15, 2019 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Yeah, the rag didn't want to work for me. The gears chewed it up.

Also because the gears are beveled, the head tries to climb out of the body without the pin in there.

Author:  CDSAND7640 [ Thu May 16, 2019 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 408 - Shame

Yes, the helical 408 gears tend to do that...if you've not got a good jamb to prevent the gears from moving, then it's probably not that you need to soak longer...need to figure out how to stop the gear movement...anymore, I usually just go straight to a piece copper...the teeth dig in without marring the gears...

Sandman

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