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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:43 am • #  
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The 330 and 440 series reels have been one of my favorites
for quite awhile for several reasons. I have owned a fair number of each and spent quite a bit of time researching them, as well as
working on them so I could really understand and appreciate them.
Of all the ones I have owned, there have been a few different bail designs, but tonight as I was looking at the 330 series pictures in the Gallery again, I noticed that on the first version of ottomatic reels, the bail is completely different.
It doesn't have a separate wire that attaches to the arm with a nut, or a screw like the 440A model reels, it has a bail design like the 300 reels that is actually built into the arm. I can't tell you how many times I have looked at those pictures before, and I never noticed that.
It's kinda cool but I imagine nearly impossible to find a replacement if a guy needed one. It does make sense that they
changed the design though, that way the wire itself could be easily replaced if it got damaged, and it wouldn't require replacing the complete bail linkage assembly.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:39 pm • #  
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Mike 408,
Interesting observation and a model that is quite unique as far as the bail and rotor mechanisms are concerned. :sHa_okay:

I recently disassembled several of the later 330 Models and ran into the "B" side (side opposite the line guide side) bail attachment nut. This nut is round and has a slit on top, almost like the slit on a screw. Strangely, the bail wire passes through the nut's center, going into the rotor. How does one remove this unique nut? :sCo_hmmthink: You can't use a normal slotted screwdriver. :sCh_taz: Did Mitchell make a special tool for this nut? :sFi_flamethrower: Have you, or anyone else for that matter, ever tangled with one of these nuts, and if so, how on earth did you remove it? :sAng_banghead2:

I'll reveal my method later. :smokin

Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:22 pm • #  
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It's funny you mention this Bill because I too have wondered about this. In the past I haven't had a need to remove one, but that will be changing in a few days lol...
Quite awhile ago I picked up a small batch of 330's. A few were very nice but a few were a little rough so I salvaged all the parts I could from the rough ones, cleaned them and put them in a box for future use.
One of the things I saved was a very nice complete 330 rotating head assembly. The only bad thing about it was that the little chrome insert that you mentioned was oddly missing. Well, I have a couple more 330's arriving this week, one of them is near mint and another is very good but the rotor is a little rough, so I'm going to attempt to remove the insert and put it on the head that I have been saving and put it on that reel.

I've noticed that some of the inserts are completely round with the slot as you mentioned, and others have flat sides too like a regular nut. I too had figured that with the proper screwdriver they could easily be removed, or use a small wrench on the inserts with flats.
I've looked in the hole where the insert is missing and they are definitely threaded so there has to be a way.

I am going to spray some penetrating oil into the hole from the inside of the rotor before attempting to remove it, just to be safe. I would hate to ruin a good one trying to remove it.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you come up with, and when I figure it out, I will definitely let you know.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:55 pm • #  
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Hi Bill and Mike,

Mitchell did in fact make a special driver for that particular nut on the 330.
Attachment:
Otomatic Screwdriveer.jpg

Attachment:
Otomatic Screwdriveer 1.jpg

As far as I know, this driver was only available in the Mitchell Tool Kit and the Tool Kit was a Mitchell Dealer item.

I think that with a little time and a jewelers file, you could make one of these from a flat tip screwdriver of the right width and thickness.

Regards,
Chris


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:47 pm • #  
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Thanks Chris for quickly solving our mystery and providing
the great pictures... I have quite a few different sizes of screwdrivers, some that had odd purposes that I no longer remember, so I will dig them out and see if I luck out and something happens to fit, or if there is something close that can be modified.

I had a suspicion that the nut design was changed from the round version with the small slot to an actual hex style nut on the later versions of the 330, so once again I referred to the Gallery pictures, and it appears according to serial numbers that is the case.

I do like the look of the smooth round version with the slot
just because it is very clean and simple, but the apparently updated design incorporating a hex nut really makes sense
because of the simplicity of removal if a person has to.

Now that you solved that mystery for us, the other thing that seems odd on the 330 reels which obviously had a lot of engineering thought put into them, and are a very complex design, is the fact that the insert / nut that we were discussing is what was used as a means of attaching that end of the bail wire.
It makes sense to me though because of the simplicity of just using tension in the spring itself to hold the wire in place, while at the same time eliminating one spot where there is no chance of an actually screw being damaged or the threads somehow becoming stripped, and possibly ruining the complete rotating head assembly, especially when the head itself on these reels contains quite a few essential parts to work correctly.

Thanks again Chris. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:07 pm • #  
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Hats off to Chris Shannon again! :clap :clap :sHa_clap2: :sHa_clap2:
Chris thanks so much for giving us the solution to the mystery of how to remove the special nut. Once again you are becoming one of the Top Dogs as far as Mitchell knowledge is concerned. :sSig_youtheman: :sSig_thankyou:

Mike 408,
My solution turned out to be a cheat. :sSW_stormtrooper: Since I was replacing the bail wire anyway, when I ran into the special nut removal problem, I simply cut the end of the already broken bail wire off and fed the remaining piece through the nut and removed it. Then I simply took a flat headed screwdriver and easily unscrewed the nut. LOL :blush :rollin

My new replacement bail wire was of a later design that uses a revised hex head shaped nut instead of the older slotted type, and just screws on with any small wrench.

Kind Regards,
Bill :tup


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:12 pm • #  
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That works. I'm glad you got it figured out Bill but now after reading that you cut the wire to remove it, it got me thinking
and now I really feel like an idiot :blush

Because I have never had the need to remove the bail wire,
just by looking at it I was thinking that end of the wire just
popped into place and was held by tension. So after reading your post I did a search for pictures of the bail wire by itself, and much to my surprise it isn't just held in place by tension, it is held in place by having a wider end on the wire.
Sooooo, I just learned something else about the 330's lol....

I have a decent supply of parts but I really need to look around and find a couple bail wires because I have a couple I would like to replace. Maybe I'll put an ad in the classifieds and see if anyone has any and check on the big auction site too.

At this rate, I can't wait to see what new things I learn tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:10 pm • #  
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I know it's been a while since we discussed this, but I finally got around to making a tool to remove the bail insert. I used a cheap screwdriver just in case I botched it up, but surprisingly it came out better than I expected. It's not as nice as the Mitchell tool that Chris posted, but I tested it and it works great.
Now that I've done it I am going to do another one and try to make it nicer because little imperfections drive me nuts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:40 pm • #  
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what your all looking for is a spanner screw bit..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:13 pm • #  
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A spanner screw bit would definitely work, but after going through
the ones I already have, there weren't any that worked.
The ones that would fit into the slots didn't have a large enough opening to clear the wire, and the ones that would clear the wire, wouldn't fit the slots. Granted I don't have a large assortment of
them, but their usage is so specialized I don't know if you can find one that will fit correctly. Have you found one that works for this purpose ?

While I wouldn't be opposed to having one that works, I actually
like having a dedicated screwdriver for this purpose because I am less apt to misplace it :blush
Besides, it was kinda fun making one that worked.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:51 pm • #  
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Mike, I use ebay for most parts. I ran in to a guy that repairs several types of eels on youtube (secondchancetackle). He helped me with a few non Mitchell's that were given me. I've talked to him through email, and he says he has plenty of Mitchell parts. Anyone interested his email is 2ndchancetackle@gmail.com
Hope this helps.

May your lines always be tight, Don


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:27 pm • #  
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don309 wrote:
Mike, I use ebay for most parts. I ran in to a guy that repairs several types of eels on youtube (secondchancetackle). He helped me with a few non Mitchell's that were given me. I've talked to him through email, and he says he has plenty of Mitchell parts. Anyone interested his email is 2ndchancetackle@gmail.com
Hope this helps.


Thanks for the link Don. Much appreciated. I will bookmark his email and send him a message next time I need to find some parts. You can never have to many sources for old parts, especially if you are looking for something that is hard to find.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:23 pm • #  
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Mike 408 wrote:
A spanner screw bit would definitely work, but after going through
the ones I already have, there weren't any that worked.
The ones that would fit into the slots didn't have a large enough opening to clear the wire, and the ones that would clear the wire, wouldn't fit the slots. Granted I don't have a large assortment of
them, but their usage is so specialized I don't know if you can find one that will fit correctly. Have you found one that works for this purpose ?

While I wouldn't be opposed to having one that works, I actually
like having a dedicated screwdriver for this purpose because I am less apt to misplace it :blush
Besides, it was kinda fun making one that worked.


ive never run into a reel with this so have yet to see if any of mine fit


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